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Will Tiger Need His Driver at the British Open? Sports News
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Will Tiger Need His Driver at the British Open?


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Will Tiger Need His Driver at the British Open?
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Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 19, 2007

May 1, 2008 12:35 am
justmytwocents,  He can win without it, so why take the chance of using the driver,( which he can't always control),  especially if the fairways are narrow and tree lined.  But I don't think the course is that way.  Go for the win, not  with the driver!

Will Tiger Need His Driver at the British Open?
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Reputation:88
Level:All-Star
Since:Jan 27, 2008

May 1, 2008 3:43 am

to: Just My Two Cents,

(you write): "Of course, most other golfers will have to use the driver".

Using 2008 Shot Link data, there are 145 professionals on the PGATour and the Euro Tour combined who hit it longer than Tiger Woods. Further, there are another 73 professionals from the combined tours who hit it within 5 yards of Tiger.

Some of the former are listed below, and of the 218 total, many will be playing The Open at Royal Birkdale in July.

Finally, dare I say that if percentages hold true, 163 (75%) of the 218 probably drive it more accurately than Tiger, too boot.

So given this, why the imperative that they, "will have to use the driver"?

No biggie . . just asking.

 

No. - Tour . . - Yards - . . Name

1 - PGATour - 310.6 - Bubba Watson  

2 - EuroPGA - 310.3 - Christian  NILSSON

3 - EuroPGA - 309.9 - Joakim BÄCKSTRÖM

4 - EuroPGA - 309.1 - Alvaro QUIROS GARCIA

5 - EuroPGA - 308.4 - Daniel CHOPRA

6 - EuroPGA - 307.5 - Mattias ELIASSON

7 - EuroPGA - 307.2 - Anton HAIG

8 - EuroPGA - 306.3 - Paolo TERRENI

9 - PGATour - 305.7 - J.B. Holmes  

10 - EuroPGA - 305.5 - Paul WARING

22 - EuroPGA - 301.0 - Ernie ELS

23 - PGATour - 300.9 - Brett Wetterich  

25 - PGATour - 300.2 - Fred Couples

27 - PGATour - 299.8 - Anthony Kim

33 - PGATour - 297.7 - Adam Scott  

40 - EuroPGA - 296.6 - Retief GOOSEN

41 - PGATour - 296.3 - Harrison Frazar

43 - EuroPGA - 296.2 - Lee WESTWOOD

45 - EuroPGA - 296.0 - Sergio GARCIA

53 - EuroPGA - 294.5 - Jeev Milkha SINGH

59 - PGATour - 293.8 - Kenny Perry  

61 - PGATour - 293.6 - Andres Romero  

62 - PGATour - 293.6 - Bill Haas  

68 - PGATour - 293.0 - Charles Warren  

69 - EuroPGA - 293.0 - Padraig HARRINGTON

70 - PGATour - 293.0 - Phil Mickelson

78 - PGATour - 292.4 - Mathew Goggin  

84 - PGATour - 292.0 - Nick Watney  

85 - EuroPGA - 291.9 - Henrik STENSON

90 - PGATour - 291.4 - Lucas Glover

91 - EuroPGA - 291.3 - Darren CLARKE

100 - PGATour - 290.7 - Stewart Cink

103 - PGATour - 290.5 - Steve Marino  

106 - EuroPGA - 290.3 - Martin KAYMER

108 - EuroPGA - 290.2 - Robert KARLSSON

111 - PGATour - 290.0 - Camilo Villegas  

114 - PGATour - 289.8 - Davis Love III  

116 - PGATour - 289.7 - Bo Van Pelt

117 - EuroPGA - 289.6 - Nick DOUGHERTY

118 - PGATour - 289.6 - Trevor Immelman

119 - PGATour - 289.5 - Charley Hoffman  

122 - PGATour - 289.5 - Rory Sabbatini

123 - PGATour - 289.5 - Stuart Appleby

127 - PGATour - 289.3 - Vijay Singh  

130 - PGATour - 289.0 - Sean O'Hair

131 - PGATour - 288.9 - J.J. Henry

132 - PGATour - 288.9 - Kevin Stadler

134 - PGATour - 288.7 - Paul Casey

145 - PGATour - 287.9 - Angel Cabrera  

146 - PGATour - 287.7 - Tiger Woods

 

P.S. – "I Love Golf" / Royal Birkdale is a links-style golf course on the west coast of England, north of Liverpool and south of Blackpool. It is NOT at all similar to the "tree lined" parkland golf courses common throughout the States.

Rather, Royal Birkdale features large sand hills covered with low growing vegetation, often of the variety called yellow flower prickly gorse. Look for wind coming off the Irish Sea.


Will Tiger Need His Driver at the British Open?
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Reputation:94
Level:All-Star
Since:Apr 6, 2008

May 1, 2008 9:43 am

Mr. 1 iron,  the driving stat is very disceptive because it includes all drives on par 4 and 5 holes REGARLESS of what club is used off the tee.  Some guys will use driver almost all the time (example V.J. Singh) and some will seldom use the driver because they put a premium on keeting the ball in the short grass.  Tiger would rank much higher on the list if that won him more tournaments, but the PGA still has that silly rule about low score being the ultimate yardstick.   However it would be interesting to see the reasults if all the top pros were in a long drive contest using their normal drivers.  I think Tiger would be pretty close to the top. 


Will Tiger Need His Driver at the British Open?
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Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 19, 2007

May 1, 2008 11:04 am

Mister 1 iron,  Thank you for the description of the course>   With no trees to get in his way, and the open field in which to drive, TW might just as well use the driver.  He does a excellent job getting out  the rough.

ConGator,  If they had a long drive contest using their normal drivers, the rule should be you had to stay in the fairways.  If that rule applied, I doubt if TW would be at the top.  There are many others golfers who can hit the fairways more consistantly than Tiger does with their driver.

 


Will Tiger Need His Driver at the British Open?
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Reputation:94
Level:All-Star
Since:Apr 6, 2008

May 1, 2008 12:11 pm

Agreed on Tiger's accuracy versus some others.  His advantage over his peers is mostly mental.  All those guys are very, very good but I think most other pros "hope" to win but Tiger "expects" to win.   He seems to thrive on pressure.

A long drive contest consist of several attempts not just one.  Miss hits that are wide are not counted.  This is same format as track and field events like shot put, broad jump, etc.  I still think Tiger would be near the top.   


Will Tiger Need His Driver at the British Open?
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Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 19, 2007

May 1, 2008 1:54 pm
ConnGator,  I get it.  He could definitely  be on top with three chances.

Will Tiger Need His Driver at the British Open?
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Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Dec 28, 2006

May 1, 2008 2:17 pm
050108 - Dear ILG;  Tiger's biggest problem with his driver, and it gets him into trouble, is when he overswings, blocking himself out, and inevitably pushing the ball. If Tiger ever learns to just hit the ball with 85% effort, he would hit fairways with the most consistent guys around; it would make him virtually unbeatable. He has to stop the knock down shot, 3 iron, also, and replace it with a five would, even a four would to remain in tempo.

Will Tiger Need His Driver at the British Open?
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Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 19, 2007

May 1, 2008 3:43 pm

us-swabbie,  I see  that you live in FL.  Are you going to the Players at Saw Grass next week?  We are going to be there  Sat and Sun, mostly at the 17th seeing who  can keep it out of the water.

You are right about TW and the driver.  He can win without it, so I don't guess it is really a problem, other  than I'm sure he wants to master that also.


Will Tiger Need His Driver at the British Open?
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Jan 8, 2008

May 1, 2008 3:59 pm
We won't know until he plays a practice round.  He didn't use his driver at Hoylake because of the trouble he could avoid by not hitting it as far. ie; pot bunkers.  Depending on the layout and positioning of pot bunkers, Tiger will adjust accordingly.  I think many golfers can play without the driver, but will they?  Do they have the confidence to do it?  Tiger is obviously very good with his golf course management, and his confidence level is unparalled, thus making it a much easier adjustment for him to bag the driver.  I also think conditions will be a mitigating factor.  Fast and dry, he may not use too many 1's, rainy and damp, I believe he will hit at least a few. 

Will Tiger Need His Driver at the British Open?
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Jan 8, 2008

May 1, 2008 4:07 pm

Nice homework 1-iron, but I think ConnGator hit it on the button.  Tiger hits alot of "stingers", which get factored in avg.  His 270 yd. stinger is a far cry from his 350 yd bombs, of which he hits plenty.  The driving avgs are skewed, as are fairways hit stats.  If Tiger hit driver every possible hole, his accuracy ranking would be worse. 

The question Will Tiger NEED driver, was answered at Hoylake....no.


Will Tiger Need His Driver at the British Open?
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Reputation:88
Level:All-Star
Since:Jan 27, 2008

May 1, 2008 10:08 pm

to: ConnGator

(you write) "Mr. 1 Iron, the driving stat is very disceptive (sic) because it includes all drives on par 4 and 5 holes REGARLESS (sic) of what club is used off the tee. Some guys will use driver almost all the time (example V.J. Singh) and some will seldom use the driver because they put a premium on keeting (sic) the ball in the short grass. Tiger would rank much higher on the list if that won him more tournaments, but the PGA still has that silly rule about low score being the ultimate yardstick. However it would be interesting to see the reasults (sic) if all the top pros were in a long drive contest using their normal drivers. I think Tiger would be pretty close to the top."

(end)

 

Well ConnGator, I gave you half a day to correct your post but being you didn’t, I guess I’ll just have to set you straight. You are incorrect.

The PGATour ShotLink stat with regard to measured distance is taken on TWO HOLES ONLY during each 18 hole round . . . not every Par 4 and Par 5.

Proof?

Go to PGATour.com and pull up Tiger’s 2008 Driving Distance stat. Take note that it is based on (32) drives for a total distance of 9,206 yards, which equates to a 287.7 yard average.

The measured events were:

  • The Buick (8 total drives / 2 each round)
  • The Arnold Palmer at Bay Hill (8 total drives / 2 each round)
  • The CA Championship at Doral (8 total drives / 2 each round)
  • The Masters (8 total drives / 2 each round)

Note: The WGC Match Play event was exempt

And, despite your attempt at wit, the PGATour is well aware players use a wide array of clubs off the tee. Therefore, in selecting the holes for measurement, they typically select straight away holes of sufficient length that would dictate driver.

Further proof?

(from PGATour.com): 2008 PGA TOUR DRIVING DISTANCE - The average number of yards per measured drive. These drives are measured on two holes per round. Care is taken to select two holes which face in opposite directions to counteract the effect of wind. Drives are measured to the point at which they come to rest regardless of whether they are in the fairway or not.


Will Tiger Need His Driver at the British Open?
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Reputation:88
Level:All-Star
Since:Jan 27, 2008

May 2, 2008 4:27 am

Lesson #1

The PGATour’s Average Driving Distance metric is known as a "Descriptive Statistic". In fact, because only one element of the family of Descriptive Statistics is provided (the "mean"), it by itself is nearly useless.

Missing from the complete set of "Descriptive Statistics" is the Driving Distance: minimum, maximum, range, and variance. Also missing is the empirical data itself.

Lesson #2

"Descriptive Statistics" are to be distinguished from "Inferential Statistics".

With Descriptive Statistics, one is simply describing what the data shows.

With Inferential Statistics, one is trying to reach conclusions that extend beyond the immediate data.

For instance, we use Inferential Statistics to make judgments of the probability of an observed difference between groups (i.e., Tiger Woods’ average driving distance vs. Vaughan Taylor’s).

Thus, we use Inferential Statistics to make "inferences" from data; we use Descriptive Statistics to simply "describe" the data.

Lesson #3

The PGATour Average Driving Distance metric is based on two data points per round. No further data is supplied. It is a "mean". It is a Descriptive Statistic. Little else can be ‘inferred" from it.

Case in point: in 2007 Tiger Woods averaged 302.4 yards during the season. He ranked #12 overall and placed in the top 93.3 Percentile of all 196 competitors.

For the same period, Vaughan Taylor averaged 283.6 yards and was ranked #147 overall and finished at the 25.1 Percentile.

The difference between their averages was 18.9 yards.

However, one cannot "infer" that the difference between their EVERY drive was 18.9 yards. Further, one cannot expand this difference to mean that over 14 holes and 4 rounds, Tiger Woods enjoyed an incredible yardage advantage over his less powerful fellow competitor. Perhaps yes. Perhaps no.

Lesson #4

Let the following figures represent Vaughan Taylor’s 14 drives over one round of golf. I have taken the liberty of supplying the "Descriptive Statistics":

Data: 279, 289, 282, 290, 286, 288, 284, 287, 285, 277, 281, 284, 280, 278 yards

  • Average: 283.6 yards
  • Minimum: 277.0 yards
  • Maximum: 290.0 yards
  • Range: 13 yards
  • Variance: 17.5 yards

Let the following figures represent Tiger Woods’ 14 drives over the same round of golf. Again, I have taken the liberty of supplying the "Descriptive Statistics":

Data: 303, 343, 262, 302, 282, 362, 242, 292, 333, 272, 323, 252, 353, 313 yards

  • Average: 302.4 yards
  • Minimum: 242.0 yards
  • Maximum: 362.0 yards
  • Range: 120 yards
  • Variance: 1423.3 yards

 Important Note - The data points for both players were randomly sorted and then listed as shown using an Excel random number generator. If you don’t trust me, perform the procedure yourself, or simply pick "pairs" of these numbers from two hats.

In ordered pairs, compare each drive of Tiger Woods to that of Vaughan Taylor.

You’ll find that because of the greater variance in Tiger’s drives (some times he uses a 2 Iron, sometimes a 3 Wood, often times he is in the trees), that on at least five (5) occasions Vaughan Taylor outdrives Tiger Woods, sometimes by considerable margins. And, on perhaps one or two occasions they are within a few yards of each other. Repeat the procedure many times.

Certainly, there are times when Tiger is 50 and 60 or more yards ahead of Vaughan Taylor to be sure, but they number three or less and might represent those times on Par 5’s or drive-able Par 4’s when Tiger really lets it all hang out. Light hitting Vaughan? Vaughan Taylor (like a Zach Johnson in the 2007 Masters), simply hits SW for his approach shot on such holes.

 Conclusion:

One cannot simply take the difference between average driving distances (Vaughan Taylor’s and Tiger Woods’ in this example), multiply it times 14 holes, and then multiply it again by 4 rounds and say . . . presto! . . . Tiger has an incredible 1,056 yard advantage over Vaughan Taylor in every tournament. Like I said . . . perhaps yes . . . perhaps no.

To do so is to take a single "Descriptive Statistic" and twist it to yield an "inference", without the benefit of the empirical data and the mathematical methodologies of "Inferential Statistics".

I know that tends to be Baby Geezus’ "stock and trade", but he is rather hopeless. This post simply wants to suggest there are other possibilities beyond the narrow range of that man’s cerebral limitations.

 

One last note – Winning or losing on today’s PGATour today has little to do with Driving Accuracy or Driving Distance.

Read the recent USGA study on this finding titled, "Statistical Analysis of PGA Tour Skill Rankings 1980-2006 / USGA Research and Test Center / June 1, 2007".

The study was commissioned as part of the effort to determine the effects of technology on the game, and heavily influenced the decision by the USGA to ban the current groove design of irons used on tour effective 2009.


Will Tiger Need His Driver at the British Open?
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BabyGeezus
Level:Amateur
Since:Apr 8, 2007
May 2, 2008 6:19 am
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Will Tiger Need His Driver at the British Open