I was in an argument in some thread on here about a few guys saying Lidstrom is hands down the best defenseman ever, next to bobby orr..........i was like you have to be kidding. he's NOT better then Bourque was.
some said on offense maybe but not all around.........all around??? Bourque was great on both offense AND defense............my guess is these were young guys who didnt see much of Bourque playing.
how would you guys rank the best DEmen ever???
id say....1-Orr, 2-Bourque.......after that you can argue 3,4,5 and so on, but 1-2 i think are those 2 guys.
Bourque is the best I've seen. Especially in his younger days he had speed, puck handling behind the net and at the point, strength in the crease and the most accurate heavy shot ever. Never saw Orr, except for highlight reel stuff, so I won't dare to compare. Lidstrom is too much offense not enough defense for me.
Orr is definately number one. Hands down. Noone compares.
Ray is number two. Ray didn't have any weeknesses. Great at every aspect of the game.
Lidstrom wouldn't even be in the top 5 in my book. Great offensively and pretty good defensively obviously judging by his +/-. But he doesn't have a physical part to his game. If he gets the Norris this year it's because of his points and +/-.
I'd have to put Denis Potvin 3rd on my list. Then Larry Robinson 4th.
Bourque easily #2, because I think after 5 Norris' it got a little harder for him to win them. Plus he played when scoring and offense was way higher and before (and a bit during) the trap. So there was a different era as well.
HEY, here is an argument to place him as #1: He played forever. He pretty much was NEVER hurt. I know Orr was better, but I remember the same arguments with Gretsky v Lemieux... and the solid thing that no one could argue with was Gretsky was healthy all the time. Yes it may be a stretch, but hey, Bourque was there when the Bruins needed him all of the time...not that injuries are anyone's fault, but such is life....
Like I said it is an argument...
Also Bourque was the fastest hockey player I have ever seen skating backwards.... He was faster backwards than Bob Gainey going forwards. I remember that because I was in the Garden for a Boston Montreal game and Gainey was on a 1 on 1 with Bourque, and Bourque had to slow down or he would have piled into Andy Moog behind him, and he had to wait for Gainey to try to get by him.
I will admit a bias AGAINST Lidstrom, mainly because I have not seen him play live... I mean at a hockey rink.... only on TV. Doug Harvey must have been pretty good as well, although I haven't even seen a highlight shot of him ever.
Of course everyone is going to pick Bourque, you put this up on the Boston Board. I'm sure if you put this on the main board you will see more Lidstrom supporters.
Yeah whatever. It has nothing to do with it being on the Bruins board. It's about facts.
If your a young guy than you really don'y know.
Smarter on defense? Are you kidding me? Bourque was better defensively than he was offensively. And he was pretty good at both. I don't think anyone could give an open ice hip check the way Bourque did. You don't even see hip checks anymore.
Besides, it's hard to take you serious when you can't even spell Bourque or defense correct.
Yeah whatever. It has nothing to do with it being on the Bruins board. It's about facts.Well, this person is asking for your opinion. It is a lot harder to be objective if one of the players is from a team you like. An example would be asking this same question on the Red Wing board, I'm sure that you would get a lot more Lidstrom responses than Bourque. I tend to think Lidstrom is a better defender than Bourque but not as offensive minded, even if it is in an era where scoring is less prevelant than when Bourque played.
When you mention all time great defensemen, you're forgetting that before Bobby Orr, the greatest of all time was considered to be Doug Harvey. He still has to be up there on the all time list.
Harvey definately belongs on the list. My bad LoyalHab.
I think I mentioned Robinson already DDriver. If not then my mistake.
I'm not Knocking Lidstrom at all either. I just think that young hockey fans are going to go more with a player that they know and have seen play. Alot of these guys have probably never seen Bourque play during his prime. He was awesome. And hardly any of them have ever seen Bobby Orr play.
If I had to be honest I wouldn't even say Lidstrom is the best defenseman in the league now. I'd have to give that to Dion Phanouf of tghe Calgary Flames. This guy is easily the best all around defenseman in the game. He scores, he defends well and he absolutely punishes his opponents. Plus he isn't afraid to drop the gloves on a regular basis.
Lidstrom is a finesse defenseman. Phanouf is a finalist this year for the Norris Trophy along with Lidstrom and Zdeno Chara. And deservedly so. He may not win it this year but he will win his share in the very near future.
I think I can fit into this conversation quite nicely. Though I am Boston born and bred and I am most definitely a die hard Bruins fan, my favorite players growing up were Steve Yzerman, Sergei Federov, Igor Larionov, etc. I've watched Detroit extensively since I was about 8, as they played the Bruins in the first Bruins game I ever went to.
And in regards to Bourque and Lindstrom, one thing we really have to remember is, when was the last time Lindstrom played on a bad team? He never has. Lindstrom, since he was a rookie played with some of the greatest players to ever play the game and played for some of the greatest coaches to ever play the game. He got to play next to such rock solid players and established international greats as Fetisov,Konstantinov, Murphy and others.
Bourque on the other hand, was the marquee player on, if you look back over the years, an inferior Boston team. He often carried them offensively and defensively. He made the power play what it was. And he did it, at the highest level, for 21 years.
I do think though that everyone is selling Lindstrom short on the defensive end of the ice. Over the past 10 years he has the highest (if not highest, certainly within the top 10) plus minus of any player in the game. If anyone remembers this year the Red Wings, who won the Presidents trophy, lost I believe 8 out of 10 games without Lindstrom. Many people point to Datsuyk and Zetterberg as the people who make that team go, but if that's the case you don't know hockey. Lindstrom is the heart of that Red Wings team, much like Bourque was to Boston all those years. Then there is the obvious. Lindstrom is a great offensive player. While he has never put up a 100 point year, he plays in an era when goal scoring is at a minimum.
But that leads me to my next point. Bourque played when an era of scoring was considerably higher than it is now. And yet he stil was considered one of the best defenders of all time. While he was certianly great on the offensive end of the ice, he didn't quite have the talent and skill which Lindstrom has. But I think Bourque's defensively ability seperates the two of them. He was a great defender when he started at age 19 and he was a great defender when the Avalanche won the Stanley Cup. Lindstrom had time to grow into the role which he now possesses. He had time to learn and benefit while Bourque was "the man" from day 1.
Which brings me to my conclusion. While I think that Lindstrom is a slightly better offensive player than Bourque, Bourque was certainly the better defensive player and was great at a younger age. That isn't saying Lindstrom is strictly offense because he isn't. If you don't believe me, be open minded and go watch a Red Wings game. He is legit. Bourque though, he was one of those players that you would be happy to find once in a lifetime.
