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Reputation:95
Level:Superstar
Since:Oct 15, 2007
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bum the thing is teams like the Browns CAN NOT do it the way the Steelers have done it. If they would have started drafting correctly from day 1 then it would be a totally differant story, BUT the team BS(before Savage) was run TERRIBLY (understatement of the world) I think there are like 2 or 3 players total from the first 4 or 5 drafts even playing in the NFL. That is ridiculous. So the only choice they have had since AS (After Savage) is to try and build not only through the draft, but through free agency also. Is it desperation...No. Its trying to put a NFL competant, competative team on the field. Lets be honest, until last year the Browns weren't even remotly competative. So the only choice for a team like that is to keep getting young players while filling some holes with FAs. In a few years, the Browns may be in a position to just build through the draft, but for right now, they are doing what they have to, to just be competative. And, it IS working. Slowly, but it IS working.
Great statement G.
What people fail to realize is when we re-entered the league back in 99', we got every teams unwanted garbage, and then 5 to 6 year I think it was of some of the worst drafting by a team ever!
We spent more money on players that are no longer in the NFL than imaginable!
Where do you think the Browns would be now had we drafted guys like Donovan McNabb or Ricky Williams instead of Tim Couch in 1999...
Where do you think the Browns would be now had we drafted guys like Lavar Arrington or Brian Urlacher instead of Courtney Brown in 2000...
Where do you think the Browns would be now had we drafted guys like Ladanian Tomlinson or Casey Hampton instead of Gerrard Warren in 2001...
Where do you think the Browns would be now had we drafted guys like Ed Reed or Lito Sheppard instead of William Greene in 2002...
Where do you think the Browns would be now had we drafted guys like Osi Umenyiora or Anquan Boldin instead of Jeff Faine (who actually was a good pick...)...
These things have to be taken into consideration...
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Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Sep 17, 2006
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bum the thing is teams like the Browns CAN NOT do it the way the Steelers have done it. If they would have started drafting correctly from day 1 then it would be a totally differant story, BUT the team BS(before Savage) was run TERRIBLY (understatement of the world) I think there are like 2 or 3 players total from the first 4 or 5 drafts even playing in the NFL. That is ridiculous. So the only choice they have had since AS (After Savage) is to try and build not only through the draft, but through free agency also. Is it desperation...No. Its trying to put a NFL competant, competative team on the field. Lets be honest, until last year the Browns weren't even remotly competative. So the only choice for a team like that is to keep getting young players while filling some holes with FAs. In a few years, the Browns may be in a position to just build through the draft, but for right now, they are doing what they have to, to just be competative. And, it IS working. Slowly, but it IS working.
That makes perfect sense. I really get where your coming from. Can you see where I'm coming from? It's not as if they just went out and signed some guys to fill holes. They traded away picks and laid out big money. If these guys perform at a high level then you will be an improved team and the money is well spent. If they don't then you've traded away picks that could help your team (for alot less money) and you've also put in jeopardy the very thing you've accomplished in recent drafts - you may not be able to resign some of the great personnel you've drafted.
It's risky and if it doesn't work out it could put you right back where you started. Some in here have said you cant win without risk and I couldn't disagree more. More importantly it looks like a "win now" scenario and that hasn't been a formula for success in the NFL. Whether you agree or not I'm a football junkie and I read incessantly. The one thing you said above that I don't agree with is doing what they have to to be competitive. You WERE competitive. As you love to point out you were a tie-breaker from the playoffs and you have a core of great young talent. Keep adding more young talent and go get a guy like Calais Campbell with the second round pick you gave up for Williams. Not only does he free up money to extend the contracts of previous picks but he's a true DE as opposed to a DT who you want to move to DE (I know you guys say you will play alot of 4-3 but time will tell on that one).
I'm not an NFL GM and I could be dead wrong. I understand that. But IMO you've put at risk everything you've accomplished in the last few years and for what? Are you a super bowl contender this year? Probably not but anything is possible. I just don't understand the "sense of urgency" when you are probably a couple of years away anyway. Again, just my opinion. Maybe you win the Super Bowl this year.
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:May 29, 2007
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I would take the (Batch over Quinn) every single time.
I gotta say Mano that is really homeresk of you. Think about it for awhile.
one quite impressive performance against the Browns in 2005
Really... you are citing an "impressive performance" against a 6-10 team w/ Mo Carthon running the worst offense ever. Really?!?
Sorry, it was my turn to take a toke!
Thats what hanging out with Beachbum will do to you.
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Reputation:94
Level:All-Star
Since:Jun 22, 2007
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bring on Brady Quinn!!!!
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Nov 26, 2006
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I understand you thinking bum, but I just dont see it as a win now attitude like say, the Redskins had, or any team like that. The players they got are relativly young and can help along the young guys they will draft behind them.
Keep adding more young talent and go get a guy like Calais Campbell with the second round pick you gave up for Williams.
This goes back to the proven talent vs. unprove talent argument. It is NO more risky to take a chance on these FAs then to draft a player coming out of college. In fact there is MUCH less risk, so really I totally disagree with you here. If they can put some quality FA veterans in certain positions and then bring along the young talent behind them, isnt that the best scenario? Thats what they are doing, but it takes time. And there isnt one team in the NFL that has drafted every person on their team. You need the veteran FAs to come in and help the young guys learn. They felt there was no one worth picking in the draft at the positions they needed (Dlineman) who were going to be any better than the guys they went out and got. Isnt that why you keep telling us the Steelers didnt draft olineman? Because there were none worth taking then? Its the same as the Browns. They looked at where they were picking and decided there wouldnt be a player worth taking there, so they went the FA route. People said we overpaid for Steinbach and look what sucess he had. JThomas' success is in part due to to having Steinbach next to him dont you think.Its just differant philosophy and just because the Steelers dont do it, doesnt make it wrong or doesnt make it work. You know how I know...because it is working. Will it continue, I think so. You dont. OTWT. But Im not going to say its not going to because the Steelers dont do it. Its 2 totally differant situations.
by the way the salary caps gone in a couple of years so all this salary talk is moot. Im sure the Browns are not going to strap themselves, their not that stupid....Anymore.
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Jan 3, 2008
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Just a quick interruption on the great debate here:
I just don't understand the "sense of urgency" when you are probably a couple of years away anyway.
This line stings me...
There is no sense of urgency. It is about filling the holes in order to improve the team. Does going out an acquiring free agents to improve a weak spot compensate for a sense of urgency.
Here is how it all went down, please bear with me because I am only regurgitation information you already know. The 2007 Browns were all classified as being the 2nd to last or last in ALL power rankings (yes, every one of them). But since they performed well in 2007, we need to make sure we maintain what we have going on. I think we can all admit, NO ONE would've bet the farm on what they did in 2007.
I think we made effective decsions to help solidify top rankings. I see no sense of urgency. I see effective personel changes to help keep the Browns a contenter.
Believe me! If the Browns did to what they were projected to do last year. These message boards would be half of what they are now.
I could go into a 1000 different tangents on how teams effectively use personel to build a franchise and have a "sense of urgency". But do NOT blur that line. Savage has cleaned house and rebuilt a new. He is only solidifying the foundation for a long time.
OTWT & ISIT (In Savage I Trust)
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