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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Reputation:91
Level:All-Star
Since:Oct 18, 2006
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Torgo...J.Anderson, Blalock, Houston, L. Robinson, Nicholas, Milner, T. Lewis, Ji. Williams, Ojinakka, Jennings, Babineaux, Beck, Ch. Davis, M. Jenkins....none of these guys really jump off the page as of yet, average to below average at best....Norwood, hasn't been able to get on the field consistently, D. Hall(traded best talent), DeM. Williams(let talent go) and Roddy White looks good in 3rd year after 2 years where he could have easily been cut ( yes he was that bad!!!) , but lets hope we see a repeat of last year...if its just about the VICK contract, why are other teams able to do the same and still succeed...Brady and Manning don't have small contracts and yet they seem to be able to get players through draft and FA and sign the vets they want to keep...if VICKS contract was that much of a big deal, couldn't they have re-worked it to give them more flexibility...
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Reputation:91
Level:All-Star
Since:Oct 18, 2006
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....FA's....Hartwell, Milloy, Crocker, Webster, Sanders, Horn, Lelie, Mughelli....wasn't McKay credited with building the great defense in Tampa???...any evidence of anything like that happening in Atlanta, on either side of the ball???...8 un-productive pickups to 1 good one Abraham ( a beast if he's healthy)...
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 9, 2007
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irish_eyes35 - you refer to the Chargers as the prime example of doing things correctly in the draft.
That wasn't always the case for InSane Diego. One point I hit from time to time is that bad drafts really show their full effects about three or four years down the road, and it also typically takes a few years to realize the full benefits of good drafting.
The Chargers are a prime example of both. They consistently traded away their first round picks in the 1990s and usually came away with very little to show for it. From 1994 through 2000, they only selected one player in the first round. That player was...
Ryan Leaf.
The rest of their picks weren't all that much better, and the results of those squandered drafts were every bit as bad as you'd expect. The Bolts didn't have a single winning season from 1996 through 2003.
That trade in the 2001 draft marked a turning point, and their higher success rate in drafts since then has paid off. They've had four consecutive winning seasons, including three trips to the playoffs.
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You mentioned the Falcon free-fall began in 2001 with the one exception of 2004. I agree that the trade to move up and take Vick was one of two major Jump The Shark moments for the Falcons in this decade. (The other was Blank's decision to sign Vick to the nine digit contract extension, which destroyed the team's salary cap. And yes, that was Blank's move. The team won't be clear of the damage from that one until 2010.)
What I just can't grasp is why so many people want to blame McKay for all of the team's problems. I've had e-mails and PMs telling me all about how he paid way too much to sign Warrick Dunn just because he liked Dunn in Tampa, that he should have been fired for the Peerless Price trade, that using a first round pick on TJ Duckett "proves" he doesn't know how to draft, etc.
People can believe whatever they wish, but messages like those leave me completely bewildered. Does anyone here hold any of those things against McKay?
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Reputation:91
Level:All-Star
Since:Oct 18, 2006
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...Who did Dmitroff come in to replace???
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 9, 2007
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...Who did Dmitroff come in to replace???
What exactly is your point here?
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Sep 19, 2006
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...Who did Dmitroff come in to replace???
Thomas Dimitroff assumed only a portion of the duties that Rich McKay held previously. Many of the duties - outside of personnel - McKay continues to hold.
bstind3d, you have a problem with McKay, and that's certainly your right. However, plenty of fact has been presented as to what he has accomplished in Atlanta, and I think his record - overall - is a positive one for the franchise.
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Reputation:91
Level:All-Star
Since:Oct 18, 2006
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...well personnel is what we were discussing...so what's your point???
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 9, 2007
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Brady and Manning don't have small contracts and yet they seem to be able to get players through draft and FA and sign the vets they want to keep...if VICKS contract was that much of a big deal, couldn't they have re-worked it to give them more flexibility...
Yes, Vick's contract extension really is that much of a big deal. And the Falcons DID push out as much as they could as far as they possibly could under the terms of the CBA. The flexibility they bought is the whole problem.
When he was named to the Pro Bowl in 2004, it triggered a clause in his original contract that required the team to pay him a bonus and jack his salary or lose him to free agency at the end of the season. The extra bonus and salary would have spiked his 2005 and 2006 cap figures anyway and still left him a free agent after 2006, so Blank chose to lock him up with a long term deal before the end of 2004.
So how bad was the damage? You mentioned Brady and Manning as comparisons. Fine, we'll use Brady and Manning...
Tom Brady's cap figures the last three years were $3.4M for 2005, $8.8M for 2006, and $10.8M for 2007. Peyton Manning's figures were $8.4M, $10M, and $7.7M. Meanwhile, Vick's figures were $8M in 2005, $13M in 2006, and $7.58M in 2007 even though he didn't play. (If he hadn't been suspended, his 2007 figure would have been $13.58M.)
Mull that one over - Vick has cost Atlanta $28.58M against the cap over the last three years. Without the suspension, his total would have been $34.58M, compared to $23M for Brady and $26.1M for Manning.
The Falcons have been cap-strapped for years. Bear in mind that this is a team that had only $2.3 million of available cap space heading into the 2004 season, so it's not like they had piles of extra cash to spare when they did it. They also had $1.4M of dead money counting against the cap in 2005 and $5.7M in 2006 left over from the signing bonus paid to Peerless Price.
With Vick's extension, Blank guaranteed the team would continue to be short of cap space until 2010. Even though he's in jail, Vick still counts $7.5M against the 2008 cap and $7.3M against the 2009 cap.
The current ruling in the Vick case allows the Falcons&n bsp;to pursue about $3.5 million. There is no guarantee that they will win it or collect it if they do win. The ruling was that the rest of the money is off limits and the team can't even go after it in court.
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Reputation:91
Level:All-Star
Since:Oct 18, 2006
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...well I assume Blank had a GM and staff , cap experts, numbers crunchers,etc working out that deal with VICK.... highly paid experts explaining to him what the ramifications were to locking Vick up for the long term ....I certainly believe VICK wanted to be here in ATL and that he could have been signed for a lot less...so why the decision to put that much out there if they didn't have to?......so it seems to me there were some exec. office blunders somewhere, but the cap space affects FA signings more so , not so much the draft choices for the past 4 years...to me there seems to be a lot of disagreement between Owner, GM, and Coach philosophies over the last 4 or 5 years, which has lead to a lot of parts that just don't fit...
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Reputation:91
Level:All-Star
Since:Oct 18, 2006
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....but I appreciate the #'s, it's just that the Patriots and Colts have a lot to show for their spending, and front office decisions besides their franchise players, Brady and Manning, on both sides of the line and have been in the playoff mix for many years and the Falcons can't seem to put 2 straight good seasons together...makes you wonder...
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 9, 2007
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...well personnel is what we were discussing...so what's your point???
My points are:
(1) the current Falcon troubles are largely due to constant problems with the salary cap, for which the primary blame falls on Arthur Blank with the Vick contract extension. The NFL salary cap is a "hard cap". There is no getting around it. Every dollar paid to a player counts against the cap. You can wiggle a bit on how much money counts when, but sooner or later every dollar that goes to a player has to come out of the cap.
In general, it's a bad move to wiggle too much and push too much money out to future years. If you do too much of that, you really get hurt when things go wrong. Vick and Peerless Price are two prime examples. The team had over $7 million of dead cap space in 2005-2006 from Price. Even if they recover what they can of Vick's bonus, they're still eating close to $20M in total dead cap space on him in 2007-2009.
(2) the lack of home-grown talent on the roster is because of the drafts before McKay arrived, not because of McKay's drafts.
The 2000, 2002, and 2003 drafts were all disasters. These weren't just drafts where the players simply wouldn't make a huge impression on you, as you said about McKay's picks. These were draft classes where every single player selected was out of the organization three years later. It wasn't just a dud pick here and a late rounder that didn't pan out there. The team came away with absolutely nothing to show for all three of those drafts. Many of those players had gone down in a blaze of obscurity by the end of their first training camp.
Failure like that creates a torrent of holes to fill. With no cap dollars available to keep your own good players or to fill those holes, the team was stuck taking chances on bargain rack free agents. It should come as no surprise that most of them didn't pan out.
There's no telling if Anderson, Blalock, Houston, Robinson, Nicholas, Milner, and Lewis (the first seven guys you named as not impressing you) will pan out. They were all drafted just last season. It's way too soon to tell how they'll do over the long haul. But they're still much, much better than nearly all of the pre-McKay draft class of 2003, where usually just two or three guys made it out of training camp the following year.
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 9, 2007
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to me there seems to be a lot of disagreement between Owner, GM, and Coach philosophies over the last 4 or 5 years, which has lead to a lot of parts that just don't fit...
I'm with you there. Ultimately, Blank called the shots. I do hold McKay largely to blame for Petrino, but the final decisions to hire Mora, fire Mora, and hire Petrino all rested with Blank.
Fortunately, he has said in interviews that he intends to take a step back and not get involved with the football operations as he has in the past. I hope he sticks to it and lets Dimitroff do his thing without interference.
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Sep 19, 2006
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certainly believe VICK wanted to be here in ATL and that he could have been signed for a lot less...so why the decision to put that much out there if they didn't have to?.....
What is "certain" is that none of us know how those negotiations went down. None of us know if Arthur Blank made that offer on his own - or if that is what Michael Vick and his agent were demanding from the Falcons.
None of us know if Blank "had to" put that much out there or not.
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Reputation:91
Level:All-Star
Since:Oct 18, 2006
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Torgo..." what's your point"...was directed to self annointed Editor-in-Chief FalconFan9, ... but thanks for all the info...time will tell how the Falcons fare under the new regime...
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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Why Jimmy Williams missed OTA' S
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