SEC is top.....not top to bottom better in 08

I will still go with Washington over Vandy next year... although Vandy had a great year last all things considered. I was actually quite impressed -- they are definitely not scrubs. Miss on the other hand (which is you actual last place team) is pretty bad and I will definitely take our last place team in Washington over them. Especially the fact that Washington won some IC games and actually beat a ranked Boise St. I cannot wait to watch UW this year. I think in the next two years they are going to be pretty damn good.

 This is what I mean. When an SEC team comes close to beating it shows their strength. But it does not work for other conferences. Go figure. I did not say Vandy was weak. But you say not even close for Vandy and Washington. Perhaps our conference was just strong as well. Or maybe the SEC was just overrated when Vandy won. I don't know. I just think all conferences are tough to get through. You just do not seem to respect other conferences they way they should be respected.

Washington almost beat USC the year before. They almost beat Cal. They barely lost to ASU.

THis year, they beat a ranked Boise St and beat CAL

It is all good. As you said, all the different styles is what makes college football fun.

Peace.

-- Of course it is. How can it not be? Are you blind with what happened in the Big 12 this year? Makes no sense man. I am not saying that the Pac 10 is the best conference, but I do think it does the best way in terms of determining a champion. Would you argue that this is not the best way? Not saying change the other conferences, just let me know if you really think the split is better than what the Pac is doing. Just answer the question.

WHat else is news. The only loser of a conference CG to make a BCS Bowl was OU and they made the BCS NC game in 03. EVERY other loser of a conference CG has missed a BCS bowl and many time fallen below teams they beat that end up in BCS Bowls. That is just the way it is. We saw that with UGA and KAN this year.

-- And they had to change the rules because of that. I always love the that is they way it is. Do you agree with it or not?

But they lost to UT and MS. you keep beating this to death, but why are good wins better than bad losses? What was the tiebreaker that got UGA in and not FLA?

-- You are the SEC Fan. You explain, because on paper I will take Florida over Georgia because of common opponent. That would be the most logical to me. Florida lost to ranked Tenn and Miss. Georgia did not play Miss and lost to ranked Florida and LSU. Tenn lost to Georiga and unranked Auburn. So Florida seems more impressive to me. Just my opinion on these matters.

What about the other teams? The PAC and SEC played the same % of D-AA teams in 06. Go back on my messages to the fall of 06 before you joined and you will see many posts showing that the SEC played a comparable OOC schedule that year when compared to the PAC. Using a sample of 3 teams is not the entire OOC schedule.

Here is Sagarin's rankings for you from 2006 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt06.htm) notice SOS ...

SEC

Florida - 8

LSU - 20

Auburn - 23

Arkansas -- 26

Tennessee - 4

Georgia - 24

SC - 16

Kentucky - 13

Alabama -30

Vanderbilt -39

Miss - 21

Miss St. - 17

Pac 10

USC - 2

Cal - 9

OSU - 15

UCLA - 7

Oregon - 6

WSU - 10

ASU - 11

Wash - 5

AZ- 3

Stanford -1

Interesting... I will let you do the math. Why do you think the difference?

In 2007, I believe all Pac 10 teams (except USC #29( were ranked in the Top 20 SOS and even had the top 2 spots with some more in the top 10.

I cannot wait to see how you negate these rankings. Man, give us some love.

Peace.

rcooke,

Another of the old threads huh?  Ok quickly because I gotta go.  First Jeff Sagarin bases his Strength of Schedule after his ratings.

Three quick examples of his product:

2001.....Nebraska #3 and Colorado #5....One Day after Colorado wins 62-24 to capture Big 12 North

2006....OSU and Michigan #1 and #2.....LMAO, still

2007...Va. Tech#1 and LSU #2...Teams have IDENTICAL Records.  LSU wins 48-7.

Now if you trust these SOS please be my guest.  And by the way, there are MANY MANY more examples of Sagarin's prowess.

"Using Sagarin's SOS ranking to make the point that the PAC played a better OOC schedule is comparing apples to oranges, now isnt it. The PAC teams are ranked so high because of the 9th conference game. That helps their SOS dramatically. That does not mean they played a strong OOC schedule. It means they had 3 OOC games, not 4 or more like the other conferences. The other conferences played their share of cupcakes, and had more OOC games to fill on their schedules. A closer examination would show the PAC, even with having to dig up 1 less OOC game, 30 compared to 48 for the SEC, ACC, and BIG 12, still played the same % of DAA teams as the SEC that year. 18 fewer OOC games to come up with and that is the best they could do?"

1. The NCAA uses the winning% of opponents for SOS. Does not take into account the strength of the conference. Go see below what teams you guys played. Tell me if you think that is fair.

2. The Pac 10 is ranked higher because of a 9th game... you hit it on the spot. It is a tougher schedule to actually have to play your whole conference. Go figure.

3. For our OOC schedule... we primarily played the MWC, The Big 12, WAC and even the SEC to an extent that year.

  SEC played primarily the Sunbelt Conf, Conf USA, Mid America (I did not add Pac 10 because you have 12 teams where Pac had 10 and less OOC games)

  -- Are you seriously trying to compare that?

  You have more opportunities to schedule tougher opponents.

  We played with less teams and less OOC games... 12 BCS opponents.

  The SEC with more teams and more OOC games ... 13 BCS opponents (incl. Miss St and Miss St)

So what you are trying to tell me is that regardless of opponents... all that ultimately matters is wins or loss vs the opponents according to your view.

Let me know what you think...

"SOS" for Florida and the team opponents

Southern Miss 9-5

UCF 4-8

Tenn 9-4 (5-3) Cal, AF, Marshall, Memphis

Ken 8-5 (4-4) Louisville, Texas St, Central Mich, LA Monroe

Alabama 6-7 (6-7) Hawaii, La Monroe, Duke, Fl Int.

LSU 11-2 (6-2) La Laf, Arizona, Tulane, Fresno St

Auburn 11-2 (6-2) Wash St, Tulane, Buffalo, Ark St

Georgia 9-4 (4-4) W. Kentucky, UAB, Colorado, Ga Tech

Vandy 4-8 (1-7) Michigan, Tenn St, Temple and Duke

SC 8-5 (3-5) Wofford, Fl Atl, Midd Tenn, Clemson

West Carolina 1-10

Florida St (7-6)

Arkansas 10-4 (7-1) USC, Utah St, SE Miss St, LA Monroe

A majority of your OOC games were vs the Sun Belt, Conf USA and Mid America

Is it quite possible that Florida got the benefit of all of the SEC teams playing weak opponents in 2006 and not having to all play each other? In addition, you played an overwhelming amount of those games at home. When you play 8 of 11 conference opponents kind of skews winning% depending on your draw or schedule. Is that fair to say?

USC schedule

Arkansas 10-4 (SEC W Champs)

Nebraska 9-5 (Big N champs)

Arizona 6-6 (4-5) BYU, LSU, Stephen Austin

Washington 5-7 (3-6) San Jose St, Oklahoma, Fresno St

Washington St 6-6 (4-5) Auburn, Idaho St, Baylor

ASU 7-6 (4-5) N Ar, Nevada, Colorado

OSU 10-4 (6-3) Eastern Wash, Idaho, Boise St

Stanford 1-11 (1-8) San Jose St, Navy, Notre Dame

Oregon 7-6 (4-5) Fresno, Oklahoma, Portland St

Cal 10-3 (7-2) Tenn, Minn, Portland State

Notre Dame 10-3

UCLA 6-7 (5-4) Utah, Rice, Notre Dame

A majority of our OOC games were MWC, WAC, Big 12 and even the SEC to an extent and even ranked Notre Dame

"How did I do? Do you now understand that the 9th conference game and 18 fewer OOC games to schedule makes this possible, especially when you use Sagarin as your source. Go to the NCAA website, or CBS's and look at their ranking. They will show a different result. Go figure.

Once again the SOS ranking measures the entire schedule, not just the OOC schedule strength. Big Difference."

-- How about just showing you the OOC schedule as I did and the conferences from which they came. How would you rank the conferences out of the BCS? Does that help?

-- NCAA uses winning % of opponent and does not take into account strength of conference. Pretty easy to skew that ranking.

In the end it is all good. I enjoy the conversation. I am biased about how the Pac 10 does things. I think it is a much better system and I applaud them for going on the road more and playing what I think are more difficult OOC games. I don't think anyone (other than Washington) are really going to schedule all top 25 teams. I get it. BUT Once again... it is just my opinion that the Pac 10 does it better than anyone else. Ultimately, money is at stake for a lot of teams and more importantly a shot a national title.. so I get it. Which makes it more impressive that my boys are playing OSU this year and that ASU is playing GA. Cannot wait.

Good stuff as always SEC Fan. I was looking at the NCAA stuff and I am not even going to go the Big 10 or Big 12 argument.

Peace.

By your examples... does it not mean that Nebraska had the tougher SOS because it lost to Colorado. Ditto Va Tech. Don't know about OSU and Michigan. They were that close? LOl.

Also... I tried looking at other sites and a lot of them use just SOS by winning % of opponents played. Do you trust that more. Give me a site if you have one that you feel does a better job.

Peace.