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Reputation:79
Level:Pro
Since:May 6, 2008
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Ok, I'll take your word for it. Do you have any ideas where to find these interviews on the internet?
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I dont recall which thread it is in but a poster was kind enough to point out like 15 different quotes gathered from various sources. He also was kind enough to attach links as references to each quote. It was only yesterday or the day before so I bet its on the first page or two. I wish I could do better than that, but its a start.
Thank you by the way for at least being objective on the matter.
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Reputation:79
Level:Pro
Since:May 6, 2008
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c. jimmy johnson saying something does not make it true.
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Of course, anything taking any blame away from the Patriots CANT be true!
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Reputation:95
Level:Superstar
Since:Jan 8, 2007
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You hit the nail on the head racerchamp. I do however, think last year was a freebie for Garrard and when faced with doing it on his own I question his intestinal fortitude. Should make for a great season though. Jags scare me too!! And why the hell do the Jacksonville fans not go crazy for these guys....I don't get it.
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Reputation:93
Level:All-Star
Since:Sep 13, 2007
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Well, grogan just gave me a piece of evidence that says perhaps the sham here is not the Patriots, but maybe the sham is the NFL? Did Matt Walsh have something against the Patriots, so he decided to torpedo the organization? Was Matt Walsh looking for some media exposure? He could be the first video tape assistant to torpedo his own organization. Who knows.
Thank you for posting the interview, grogans. I had no idea that it existed. If what J.J is true, that means that perhaps the NFL is the crook here? It was very elightening.
By the way everybody, i'm a diehard Steelers fan. I'm not a pat's fan.
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Reputation:93
Level:All-Star
Since:Sep 13, 2007
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It's no problem man. Whenever I'm bored just sitting around, I'll look into that more. I'm sure I'll find it. I guarantee there is a lot of sites and whatnot that is dedicated to showing different about all this spygate stuff.
I try to be objective, sometimes I do mess up though.
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 25, 2006
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Of course, anything taking any blame away from the Patriots CANT be true!
no, it would be taking the blame away from everyone else. the patriots cheated, there are video tapes, remember?
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 11, 2006
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"By the way everybody, i'm a diehard Steelers fan. I'm not a pat's fan."
Tweak... BTW, not that this is as severe as Spygate, but I did make a point that every team cheats at some level. The Steelers as well... In 2000, Jerome Bettis "faked" a knee injury to avoid being cut by the Steelers. He feared that if he didn't get put on IR, he was gone. According to league policy, a team can't cut an injured player. Bettis knew this & the Steelers eventually (and unknowingly) filed a false injury report. Like I said, it's nowhere near as severe as Spygate, but it is "cheating" to some degree. Basically, Bettis was able to stay with the Steelers rather than becoming a free agent or on waivers for that matter & having another team (that could have used him) unable to sign him... Just an FYI.
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Reputation:93
Level:All-Star
Since:Sep 13, 2007
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That is true, I never heard that before, but that is true policy. I personally was pretty mad about that, because Bettis is a great player, and he should've never thought that. I know his career was not going great at that point and time, but he was still a great player. But no, I do agree that is cheating to some degree. I do believe that teams may do something that isn't kosher, so I'm not saying that the Steelers are completely innocent (I know you are implying that I said they are) either. I'm not a big fan of the NFL though, because I think there is something going on behind the scenes there, and the big shots are corrupted to some degree. I think they look at the NFL as business anymore rather than looking at it as a wonder league where people get to enjoy the game of football and the history that entails it. It's just all about money and media exposure. So, I'm impartial towards the NFL.
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Level:Amateur
Since:Mar 6, 2008
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This message has been removed by the administrator.
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Reputation:97
Level:Superstar
Since:Apr 7, 2007
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Look, I'm not trying to fight you about this one, but
If you concider that as cheating then every NFL team cheats because they all do that. You still need skill and stength to win a football game.
Look, i don't care about the whole spygate business. However, where's the evidence of this statement that you posted?
Tweaker - the quotes from Jimmy Johnson have made the rounds on this site more often than i can remember. Do a bit of research.
Taping signals was common practice - until the New commish, Goodell, stepped in. He put the hammer down (via a memo) and ONE coach that we know of chose to ignore that.
Guess who that coach was.
That's why the Patriots fans are adamant that this isn't as big a deal as the 'haters' want it to be. Because no less an authority than a former head coach says it's not.
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Reputation:97
Level:Superstar
Since:Apr 7, 2007
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Tweaker - you honestly come accross as someone who wants to be objective. And for that I applaud you (and add). This is the post that was refrerenced, by a guy named 'jsoe3' - excellent reading. What it is is basically a list of cold, hard facts supported by links and references. This is the type of post that 'haters' are INCAPABLE of producing and why Patriots fans by and large are totally frustrated. The blind dropping if this accusation and that accusation just take their toll, when all we want is just a hair of objectivity. For instance, when we reference Jimmy Johnson's admitted taping, the 'haters' say we use it as a defense. We don't. We use it as an illustration on the league as a whole. Anyway, read this:
You are right about Belichick's actions being a mistake. The NFL's previous commissioners set a precedent in the league that this type of activity would be overlooked and rules concerning it would not be enforced, at least not in any meaningful way. This created an environment where this type of activity was commonplace and practiced widely.
It has been the contention of some Pats fans, myself included, that the practice of stealing signals is deeply rooted in the NFL due to the leagues inaction and lack of enforcement.
Pats haters claim that the Patriots are the only team that has been caught videotaping. That's simply not true. The Jets were caught taping in Foxboro the year before. There is a long list of accusations against other teams for various other forms of signal stealing and what even the Haters would define as "cheating".
Take a look at the items listed below and the links in my sources and ask yourself if the situation is as cut-and-dried as the Haters make it seem. There's plenty of probable cause to justify a league-wide investigation into all teams taping practices. But so far, the league and the Haters don't want that.
Here are some other interesting facts that the Haters always ignore:
1. The Patriots caught the Jets filming in the end zone in Foxboro in 2006. The Jets said that the Pats had given them permission, which they clearly hadn't because Pats asked the cameraman to leave. The league did nothing but to say it was okay and did not confiscate tapes or investigate. The Jets were supposedly filming "coaching video".
2. The Dolphins bought game tapes of the Patriots to study Tom Brady's audibles before a MNF game in Dec 2006. Zach Thomas admitted to knowing all Brady's signals from the tape study. The league ruled that such tape study is okay.
3. Denver Broncos coach Mike Shanahan admitted in 2002 to hiring lip readers to steal signals. He bragged that his lipreaders could get all the signals by the end of the 1st half, sometimes by the end of the 1st quarter.
4. The Jets were accused of cheating by calling illegal audibles in a game against the Ravens. Brian Billick said that the illegal audibles by the Jets resulted in 3 offside penalties.
5. The KC Chiefs admitted that they had somehow got hold of a 49ers playbook and memorized it before a game against the niners. KC knew every play that KC called before the snap. This was when Tony Dungy was with KC.
6. The Raiders, Broncos, Steelers, and 49ers were all caught cheating on salary cap limits and all were fined and lost draft picks.
7. Former Dallas Cowboy coaches Barry Switzer and Jimmy Johnson admitted to doing "similar stunts" (video taping) while they were coaching.
8. Former Raiders player Howie Long said in USA Today that "anybody who thinks the Patriots are the only club spying on other teams is 'naive.'"
9. Former Eagles QB Ron Jaworski admitted that when he played, his backup QB would spy on the defense and signal Jaws by dropping red flags to indicate blitzes. He also said that he had no problem with Pats taping the Rams before 2001 SB.
10. Current KC coach Herm Edwards said that, "There isn't a team in the league that doesn't try to steal signals [but] I haven't heard about teams recording footage like the Patriots were," said one longtime NFL assistant coach. "But you can bet everybody is trying to steal in some way. In fact, you can go to any NFL game and you'll find some coach whose sole job is to look for defensive signals."
11. Former Steeler's coach Chuck Knoll said that signal stealing is "a whole lot about nothing".
12. Dan Rooney of the Pittsburgh Steelers stated, "We consider the tapes of our coaching staff during our games against the New England Patriots to be a non-issue," Rooney said in a statement. "In our opinion, they had no impact on the results of those games."
13. According to the NFL rules, teams are allowed to tape "coaching video" from an upper level location or from the end zones with no restrictions so long as both teams have access to the location. Such taping does not require league permission. No one seems to know exactly what "coaching video" is, that there is any review or monitoring of what gets taped, and the NFL doesn't make it's official rule book public.
But this rule seems to be a direct contradiction of the following "rules":
Page 105 of the Game Operations manual says: "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game." It later says: "All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."
And, a memo from Ray Anderson, NFL head of football operations, to head coaches and GMs on Sept. 6, 2006 said: "Video taping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches’ booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."
The first rule states that video taping is allowed from an upper level location to make "coaching video", but the other 2 say that video taping is not allowed in "areas accessible to staff members."
Also note that rule regarding taping that the Pats were disciplined for in this year was also in place at the time the Jets were caught taping at Foxboro. The Pats were investigated and penalized, the Jets were not.
None of these things justify or excuse the Pats for violating a rule, but the Haters and the league are not doing the same thing to other teams.
The team should not be condemned for the actions of a coach who is doing what a lot of other coaches and teams have been doing for a long time.
Source(s):
1. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story...
1. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story...
1. http://nationalpost.pa-sportsticker.com/...
1. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footba...
2. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/...
3. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_...
4. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story...
4. http://www.boston.com/sports/football/ar...
5. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/sto...
6. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/art...
6. http://blog.footballguys.com/2007/09/11/...
7/8. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist...
9. http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/Steve...
10/11. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/st...
12. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap...
13. http://www.boston.com/sports/football/pa...
13. http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5...
Misc links:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/st...
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/09/14/Bucs/I...
http://thesportslawprofessor.blogspot.co...
http://sports-law.blogspot.com/2007/09/s...
http://thesportslawprofessor.blogspot.co...
There you go.
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Reputation:92
Level:All-Star
Since:Mar 27, 2008
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super_Chargers
#1 i live in california born and raised have hated the Chargers forever they sux.
And the pats will have a great defense this year with the new players we have gotten and also are offense if much more prepared for this year the chance of them going undeafeted again is slime but it could happen but the chance of them winning the superbowl they have a realy good chance. And the Giants came in and had a fluk game and won they got completly lucky and it will not happen again cause they are not good enough. Elli su | |
