| |
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Jan 12, 2007
|
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="980" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr valign="top">
<td width="800" height="650">
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="800" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr valign="top">
<td>
<table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2" width="100%" border="0" class="player_stats">
<tbody>
<tr class="bg0" align="left">
<td colspan="17"> Minor League Batting Statistics</td>
</tr>
<tr class="bg4" align="left">
<td> Year</td>
<td> Team</td>
<td> G</td>
<td> AB</td>
<td> R</td>
<td> H</td>
<td> 2B</td>
<td> 3B</td>
<td> HR</td>
<td> RBI</td>
<td> BB</td>
<td> KO</td>
<td> SB</td>
<td> CS</td>
<td> BA</td>
<td> OBP</td>
<td> SLG</td>
</tr>
<tr class="bg2" valign="middle" align="right" height="17">
<td align="left"> 2001</td>
<td align="left"> R-Cubs</td>
<td> 41</td>
<td> 150</td>
<td> 18</td>
<td> 39</td>
<td> 16</td>
<td> 0</td>
<td> 1</td>
<td> 20</td>
<td> 15</td>
<td> 33</td>
<td> 1</td>
<td> 0</td>
<td> 0.2600</td>
<td> 0.3393</td>
<td> 0.3867</td>
</tr>
<tr class="bg2" valign="middle" align="right" height="17">
<td align="left"> 2002</td>
<td align="left"> R-Cubs</td>
<td> 44</td>
<td> 156</td>
<td> 24</td>
<td> 42</td>
<td> 10</td>
<td> 2</td>
<td> 3</td>
<td> 24</td>
<td> 13</td>
<td> 35</td>
<td> 0</td>
<td> 2</td>
<td> 0.2692</td>
<td> 0.3333</td>
<td> 0.4167</td>
</tr>
<tr class="bg2" valign="middle" align="right" height="17">
<td align="left"> 2002</td>
<td align="left"> A-Boise</td>
<td> 1</td>
<td> 5</td>
<td> 1</td>
<td> 2</td>
<td> 0</td>
<td> 0</td>
<td> 0</td>
<td> 0</td>
<td> --</td>
<td> 1</td>
<td> 0</td>
<td> 0</td>
<td> 0.4000</td>
<td> 0.4000</td>
<td> 0.4000</td>
</tr>
<tr class="bg2" valign="middle" align="right" height="17">
<td align="left"> 2003</td>
<td align="left"> A-Daytona</td>
<td> 89</td>
<td> 297</td>
<td> 26</td>
<td> 72</td>
<td> 12</td>
<td> 2</td>
<td> 2</td>
<td> 38</td>
<td> 31</td>
<td> 58</td>
<td> 0</td>
<td> 0</td>
<td> 0.2424</td>
<td> 0.3125</td>
<td> 0.3165</td>
</tr>
<tr class="bg2" valign="middle" align="right" height="17">
<td align="left"> 2004</td>
<td align="left"> AA-West Tenn</td>
<td> 104</td>
<td> 332</td>
<td> 47</td>
<td> 90</td>
<td> 16</td>
<td> 0</td>
<td> 9</td>
<td> 48</td>
<td> 40</td>
<td> 71</td>
<td> 1</td>
<td> 2</td>
<td> 0.2711</td>
<td> 0.3553</td>
<td> 0.4006</td>
</tr>
<tr class="bg2" valign="middle" align="right" height="17">
<td align="left"> 2005</td>
<td align="left"> AAA-Iowa</td>
<td> 91</td>
<td> 292</td>
<td> 30</td>
<td> 74</td>
<td> 14</td>
<td> 0</td>
<td> 4</td>
<td> 39</td>
<td> 48</td>
<td> 77</td>
<td> 0</td>
<td> 1</td>
<td> 0.2534</td>
<td> 0.3567</td>
<td> 0.3425</td>
</tr>
<tr class="bg2" valign="middle" align="right" height="17">
<td align="left"> 2006</td>
<td align="left"> AAA-Iowa</td>
<td> 108</td>
<td> 342</td>
<td> 34</td>
<td> 93</td>
<td> 21</td>
<td> 0</td>
<td> 6</td>
<td> 38</td>
<td> 41</td>
<td> 74</td>
<td> 0</td>
<td> 1</td>
<td> 0.2719</td>
<td> 0.3531</td>
<td> 0.3860</td>
</tr>
<tr class="bg2" valign="middle" align="right" height="17">
<td align="left"> 2007</td>
<td align="left"> AAA-Iowa</td>
<td> 110</td>
<td> 385</td>
<td> 75</td>
<td> 136</td>
<td> 31</td>
<td> 3</td>
<td> 26</td>
<td> 109</td>
<td> 53</td>
<td> 94</td>
<td> 0</td>
<td> 0</td>
<td> 0.3532</td>
<td> 0.4241</td>
<td> 0.6519</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<script type="text/javascript">
DragDrop.init( 'dd1', {"m_16":{"used":1,"column":0,"className":"dd_module","title":"Eligibility"},"m_6":{"used":1,"column":0,"className":"dd_module","title":"Recent Trades"},"m_17":{"used":1,"column":0,"className":"dd_module","title":"Rank Among Leaders"},"m_7":{"used":1,"column":1,"className":"dd_module","title":"Latest News"},"m_8":{"used":1,"column":1,"className":"dd_module","title":"Injury Report"},"m_9":{"used":1,"column":1,"className":"dd_module","title":"Last 7 Games"},"m_10":{"used":1,"column":0,"className":"dd_module","title":"Manage Content"},"m_11":{"used":1,"column":1,"className":"dd_module","title":"Upcoming 7 Games"},"m_1":{"used":1,"column":0,"className":"dd_module","title":"Expert Draft"},"m_12":{"used":1,"column":1,"className":"dd_module","title":"Fantasy Trend"},"m_2":{"used":1,"column":0,"className":"dd_module","title":"Player Ratings"},"m_3":{"used":1,"column":0,"className":"dd_module","title":"Key Stats"}}, [16,1,12,8,3,7,10,9,2,17,6,11], '/players/playerpage', '?player_id=392194' );
</script>
What happend in 07, he must of had a growth spurt;)</td>
<td width="5"> </td>
<td align="center" width="165">
<style type="text/css">
.cmFAN {
display:inline;
position:absolute;
visibility:hidden;
width:120;
padding:0;
background-color:#009;
z-index: 2000;
}
.cmLFAN {
font-size: 9px;
font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;
color: #000;
text-decoration: none;
background-color: #ffc;
}
.cmLFANH {
font-size: 11px;
font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;
font-weight: bold;
color: #000;
text-decoration: none;
background-color: #ffc;
}
.cmLFANL {
font-size: 10px;
font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;
font-weight: bold;
color: #000;
text-decoration: none;
background-color: #ffc;}
.cmLff a:hover {color: #fff;}
.ff a:hover {color: #fff;}
.cmFAN DIV {padding-bottom:1px; border:0px;}</style>
<script src="http://www.sportsline.com/u/includes/fantasy/js/pulldown_dom.js" type="text/javascript"> </script>
<script type="text/javascript"> <!--//
var dclkSkyscraper='http://ad.doubleclick.net/adj/cbssports/'+vTag+';'+vTarget+';'+uID+';sz=160x600;tile=2;ord='+random+'?';
if (switchDclk != 'off') {
if (location.search.substring(1).indexOf('DCLK')> -1) document.write('<input type="text" value="'+dclkSkyscraper+'" style="width:160px"> ');
document.write('<scr' +'ipt src="'+dclkSkyscraper+'"> <\/script> ');
}
// --></script>
<script src="http://ad.doubleclick.net/adj/cbssports/mlb/fantasy/single/free/players;arena=mlb;site=fantasy;feat=players;feat=playerprofiles;prod=single;svl=free;type=psa;team=CHC;playr=392194;user=Named;ct=USA;st=IL;ac=815;gend=M;age=B;occ=7;seg=nonaol;ctype=lan;lang=en-us;lang=en-us;adv=a;cust=yes;fteam=NFL-CHI;fteam=NBA-NONE;fteam=MLB-STL;fteam=NHL-NONE;fteam=NCAAF-NONE;fteam=NCAAB-NONE;pteam=MLB-CHW;pteam=NHL-none;pteam=NCAAB-none;fplay=TEN-none;fplay=AUTO-none;pplay=TEN-none;u=madisonm4;sz=160x600;tile=2;ord=08718742352467112?" type="text/javascript"> </script>
<noscript> </noscript>
CBS Sports Store
St. Louis Cardinals Hooded Pullover
$59.99 Shop Now!
· Cardinals Authentic Home Jersey
$199.99
· Cardinals Women's Peace T-shirt by Soft As A Grape
$19.99
<!-- AD for MLB : STL MLB CHW -->
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
Reputation:97
Level:Superstar
Since:Sep 28, 2006
|
|
So you've never gotten better at ANYTHING over time?
It's possible he's juicing but what explains why almost every guy who is 27 produces big numbers? Why is that some guys who average in the minors do great in the bigs btu other guys who are loaded with "potential" and kill minor league pitching bat .220 in the bigs?
If the guy gained 40 pounds and his head changed shapes yea test him. Otherwise i'd say you're jsut whining becuase the guy you played against in Fantasy baseball last week had him in his lineup and you didn't know enough to even draft him. (thankfully I did but with Joe Mauer it's been a toss up)
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Dec 29, 2007
|
|
Soto had great numbers in triple a last year and great numbers when they called him up at the end of last year. He just keeps on hitting. No juice, just skill.
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Jul 26, 2007
|
|
Glad to see you corrected it. I would have mentioned it then but I WAS NOT ON.
Fair enough, but I corrected before you blasted me.
Anyway, define "never hit inhumanly ridiculous numbers".
44 HR with 145 RBIs
44 HRs with 165 RBIs
45 HRs with 145 RBIs
Notice how you dont see numbers in the 50s?
For 25 years nobody hit 50 HR and now with PEDs readily available there are a handful who do it every year.
Look at ManRam's stats. Two of those years were from his prime when he was 26, 27. The best hitters in baseball always put up numbers like that in their prime. At 24 he hit 33 HR. The numbers are relatively stable. He also averaged killed the ball in the minors, much as he did in HS. ManRam was always a brilliant hitter. His power numbers are consistent with brilliant hitters like Schmidt in the 80s, Reggie in the 70s, Mantle in the 50s-60s, Joe D in the 40s.
Giambi never reached any of these.....and he admits to using PEDs
Jason Grimsley was busted and he never became Johan. Big deal. PEDs help enhance your ability. Obviously, some players have more ability to enhance than others.
oh, and I like !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!de gustibus non est disputandum
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 28, 2006
|
|
I can't wait for the moronic "Mike Fontenot and Ryan Theriot inject each other in the a**" thread. I'm sure those huge guys are juicin too.
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
|
Level:Amateur
Since:Mar 14, 2008
|
|
This message has been removed by the administrator.
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Jul 26, 2007
|
Aren't we forgetting something here? Minor leaguers were tested long before major leaguers were and he never tested positive in the minor leagues.
Excellent question. Perhaps the best counter-argument to Soto juicing. Supposedly, testing in the minors is stricter so if he started juicing last year you'd think he'd have gotten caught.
That being said, I never heard that they test blood. Only urine. In the majors, they certainly do not test blood. Urine exposes SOME steroids, not all. (theyre constantly coming out with new roids specifically geared to be undetectable in urine).
My research has found that HGH is undetectable without a blood test. That being said, if anybody knows for certain what the testing policy in the minors is, that may be helpful for this debate.
I dont claim to be infalliable. If someone can show me that they administer blood tests in the minors I'll certainly admit that Soto's numbers may have more validity than I initially surmised.
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
Reputation:97
Level:Superstar
Since:Sep 16, 2007
|
You're talking about a guy who never played high school or college baseball. The kid get signed at age 17 and goes right to the minor leagues. He didn't have the natural progression of seeing better and better pitching as he grew up. One day he's in PR, the next he's facing California's and Georgia's best pitching prospects.
Does anyone scream roids when a college baseball player gets better over the course of his college career.......look at JD Drew at FSU. Most players take a few years to get acclimated to seeing 90+ mph pitches on a day to day basis. Some play in good enough high school and summer leagues to see that type of pitching.....others get their reps in college. It's a natural progression to becoming a good hitter.
You can scream juice all you want. But it looks pretty uniform to me.
pfish, in the future, a person of your obvious mental shortcomings should probably wait for someone else to start the post.......then you can comment on it. You've cost yourself a whole lot of credibility on this site by the looks of things. And that has nothing to do with this latest ridiculous claim. By the way pfish - are you sure you're not a 14 year old girl? the last time i saw that many exclamation points at the end of a statement, my little sister was text messaging a friend. And in the event you really are a teacher, i take some serious pity on the students in your class, you are everything that is wrong with this country's educational system. Try less selfish moments on the CBS board, and more teaching kids.
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 24, 2006
|
|
If thats all true then I dont need "100%" proof. The circumstantial evidence should suffice.
You take what I said out of context, I said what you were implying would be 100% true IF AND ONLY IF you had proof, not assumption and allegations with no factual basing.
Circumstancial evidence should not suffice because it's circumstancial.
Circumstantial evidence, is just that, circumstantial. If you had 100% proof, it didnt come from circumstantial evidence...... If you want the circumstantial on Soto, I think the ridiculously dramatic improvement from 2006 to 2007 is pretty damning. I assumed he juiced before the season, thats why I drafted him. His guilt is not drawn simply from April 08.
What does this have to do with what I said? I said
What evidence? This is true, like I said earlier, when there is uncircumstancial evidence against them. Since there is not uncircumstancial evidence proving 100% guilt, there can be no cognitive dissonance.
There is not uncircumstancial evidence against Soto, so therefore, there can be no cognitive dissonance, because cognitive dissonance is when there is a factual and true and proven basing that people choose to ignore. Because there is no factual basing other than random allegation and assumption against Soto, then there can be no cognitive dissonance.
Also, you want to see ridiculous jumps without steroid allegations, why don't you go check out Roger Maris's career numbers before and after his 61 homer season.
I spent weeks debating Big Pillpopper in the offseason so if you want, I'll try and find the link to that thread and you can have fun with it. I'm not looking to rehash and I am positive you'll never face reality on him.
Well, like I said earlier, if and when there is factual evidence basing that he did PEDs without being uncircumstancial and random assumptions from people on a message board, THEN AND ONLY THEN I will "face reality" with him. It's not cognitive dissonance if the "facts" that people are choosing to ignore aren't facts at all.
Until then.....proof?
Why?Because that's my opinion, good enough?
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
Soto clearly on the juice!!!!!!!!!
|
Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Jul 26, 2007
|
I can't wait for the moronic "Mike Fontenot and Ryan Theriot inject each other in the a**" thread. I'm sure those huge guys are juicin too.
There are a lot of misconceptions about PED's and size. Jason Grimsley was never big. Alex Sanchez was never big.
As for your middle infield, Fontenot is a nobody. Nobody thinks twice about him.
Theriot is an excellent leadoff/2-hole hitter. He's a nice slap hitter with speed. His numbers are realtively consistent with a progression from the minors where he hit 300 in 05 and 06. If he has 15 HR in July we'll start worrying about him juicing.
|
|
