Before anyone goes absolutely bonkers, let me begin this thread with the statement that I think Bengie Molina plays hard and always give 100%. The problem with Bengie is that his baserunning, or lack thereof, has cost the Giants three, maybe four games, this year. Most recently, his inability to score on a single by Rowand last Wednesday against the Astros not only cost the Giants a run, but perhaps the game. If the Giants are serious about trying get a bunch of jack-rabbits and turn the team into a pitching, speed, defense team, then something has to be done with Bengie, By his own admission, he has cost Rowand at least five or six RBI's this season. Rowand, the ultimate team guy, says that it's no problem. But the truth is, that it is a problem for the rest of the team; a team that is strapped to have big innings and score a lot of runs to support their good, young pitchers. So what is the answer? Bengie is too good of a backstop to get rid of. He definitely hits in the clutch with runners on, and he may be the Giants best RBI guy. My solution...bat him eighth. He would still probably hit with runners on (if guys like Bowker and Catillo can get on consistently), he is a notorious bad-ball hitter, which would benefit him as a guy who would be hitting in front of the pitcher, and finally he wouldn't clog up the basepaths. Your argument might be that if you do this, the Giants would need a clean-up hitter. Look, even if Bengie bats fourth, they still need a clean-up hitter. He's a good, clutch hitter, but he's no bopper. He's not a guy who will scare people or is a guarantee to hit 30 HR's. I like Bengie a lot, but I think the Giants' brass needs to revamp how to use him offensively.
The problem with Bengie is that his baserunning, or lack thereof, has cost the Giants three, maybe four games, this year. Most recently, his inability to score on a single by Rowand last Wednesday against the Astros not only cost the Giants a run, but perhaps the game
Kahuna
Bengie's a catcher hitting out of the normal order for a catcher 7th or 8th what do you expect? Bengie is a great catcher and all probably among the top 10 definately. Personally I think he'd produce better hitting lower in the order. That's just my thought though I could be wrong.
Yeah I agee with thumper. The problem isn't that he can't run the bases, the problem is where he is batting in the lineup because the Giants don't have a better bat to put there. I'd prefer him at about the 6 spot in the order.
Hooray Big K. Excellent evaluation of Fat Bengie. I for one think we should trade him at first opportunity not because he's no good but rather because he'll be worth something in return. We all know we're rebuilding, we all know the farm needs to get better, contending teams are going to get hungry soon and will be willing to part with good prospects if they need a catcher (Yankees, Angels anyone?) . Catcher is a position we can afford to go with youth at and we have got some options in the minors.
Bengie is a luxury a good team can afford we are not that team...
The good thing is that Bengie is a good hitting catcher. The bad thing is that he's one of the Giants best hitters. Perhaps the best spot in the order, while reducing the risk of rally killing by slowing up the basepaths, is to bat him fifth instead of fourth. Rowand should bat in the fourth spot. The Giants cannot afford to bat him eighth for two reasons: 1-he'll have less at-bats over the long term, and 2 - he'll just get intentional passes all the time with the pitcher following him. It's not likely the eighth spot will give him many opportunities with runners on with the current Giants roster.
There's more hidden value in a veteran catcher like Bengie Molina than younger and inexperienced catchers. Hitting is only one aspect of the game but catching for the young Giant pitchers is something else. Being able to defensively stop wild pitches, calming pitchers down, helping them get out of trouble, calling for the right pitches, making great defensive plays, and stopping base stealers are all important qualities to a catcher. I've been a Giant fan my whole life and it's been difficult to think of Bengie as their best power/RBI hitter. I agree with the point that it may be a good idea to get rid of him because he has trade value for rebuilding purposes but don't forget the other qualities he brings to the table.
Garfield i completely agree with you how much value a veteran catcher brings to the table. The thing is we need to rebuild as long as Bengie is signed through next season lets keep him for the rest of the year. we have a guy coming up who could be our next great catcher but is not far enough along. If he is ready to play come spring its time to find a buyer to we can go from a 33 year old catcher to a 21 year old catcher. After this season none of our pitchers will really be rookies as each will have time put in and we can develop a young catcher. Don't get me wrong i love the guy but we have to be devoted to going young and allowing our young players to develop so we can be competitive again.
So the guy cant run! But what about his .700+ batting average the last 4 games? Or what about the 6 hits and 4 doubles he hit against the Marlins in the doubleheader?
"Molina extended his hitting streak to seven games. He is 16-for-27 (.593) with one homer and nine RBI in that span. His average has gone from .267 to .321."
garfield I agree with you about his hidden values. I don't agree that they should get rid of him. No knock on Lincecum or Cain or really any of them, but imagine what they would be like if they didn't have that veteran catcher. I don't think Lincecum would be 7-1. He is on a roll right now. And while yes he may cost the Giants a run or two a game, he makes up for it by calming down the pitchers. He makes up for it by not having an error all year. And one thing I have always said is a good defensive cathcer is better than a great offensive catcher. Don't get rid of Molina unless there is a younger but still experienced catcher in return which I doubt.
As much as the media is talking about how bad the Giants are this year they still have 3 legit All Stars to consider.
Molina
Timmy
Wilson
I believe Molina will be gone before August. The NY Yankees or the West coast Yankees will pick him up? (Angels) It would be great to land Kotchman in the deal?
I really hope Wilson can get in. 15 saves is leading the NL. ERA could be better but Bochy is to blam for some of those runs.
Wilson won`t make it,too many other Rp Hurdle will take.Giants will be lucky to get one REP,should be Timmy and Molina but numbers probably will just be 1.Hopefully neither Wilson or Linecum will make it only because of past luck when a Giant pitcher makes all star game!It seems past Rep~s from previous all star games have never been the same.Atlee Hanamaker,Shaun Estes,Jason Schmidt,and others from 80~s and 90`s who names escape me for the moment!Sure Linecum will be Giant Rep and have to think jink wont bother him kid is terrific!But i can hope and pray if he makes team they dont pitch him for selfelsh reasons!
Bonds4756 i completely agree with you that most likely Bengie will be moved at the deadline as teams will be desperate and one of the best hitters available at the deadline. I doubt the Yankees will go for Bengie because they have Posada coming back soon. If we do happen to move Bengie i do hope it is for a great 3B prospect as that is what we need.
The base running thing is an issue, but I think he has given the Giants more runs than he has costed them. He gets pinch run for in tight situations late in games by Holm. Right now he is so hot we should just keep him where he is.
