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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Dec 3, 2007
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I want the opinion of fellow Sox fans on the state of our bullpen. Let me first say that we are solid with Papelbon and Okajima, but we are horrible after that. If we don't get help soon, we are going to wear these 2 guys out. They are both on pace to throw more innings than last year and we need these guys strong if we are to do anything in the post-season.
Javier Lopez - I don't know why Francona keeps bringing this guy in close games. Just because he is lefty? He can't get anyone out, including lefties. He should be dropped. I don't care if we have a situational lefty or not if the one we have stinks.
Mike Timlin - "Mike, you were a warrior for us, but your time has passed. See you at Old Timers Day." He just doesn't have it anymore and should be pitching mop-up.
David Aardsma - great arm, but walks too many guys. He is good enough to hold onto.
Julian Tavarez - we have already designated him for assignment, so his time is short with us. I just hope we can get a decent player in return if we can trade him to Colorado or Milwaukee. Otherwise, we get nothing if we release him. Theo should have traded him in the off-season when the Rocks were interested.
Manny Delcarmen - what happened to him? Does anybody think he is hurt? He was solid for us last season and was counted on to close when Paps when unavailable this year. His Hits/IP is way up after giving up only 28 hits in 44 innings last season. Of course, we hold onto him, and keep running him out there in hopes he gets straightened out.
Craig Hansen - this guy may be a lost cause. He doesn't even pitch well enough to showcase him for a trade. On the other hand, I would rather have him than Lopez. Maybe we can teach Hansen to throw lefty. It couldn't be worse.
How do we fix it? We need to trade Crisp...and FAST! He could bring us a solid bullpen arm or a young starter that we coud use out of the bullpen. How about Crisp to the Cubs for Wuertz and Murton? Or we ask for Gallagher or Marshall along with Murton. I know the Cubs signed Edmonds...but come on. He is finished. With the money they have invested in players for that team, they should go for a quality CF. Murton is done in Chicago and he would be a solid righty OF bat to fill in for Drew and Ellsbury on occasion. Or deal Crisp to the offensively starved Padres for Heath Bell, Cla Meredith, or Clay Hensley.
What are your thoughts?
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Nov 1, 2006
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The pen is definitely struggling right now. As you said, Jonathan Papelbon is not a concern at all and Hideki Okajima usually isn't. However, I am bothered by Oki's inability to strand runners... He's allowed 14 of 17 inherited runners to score, which is both unacceptable and worrisome. He's been golden with a fresh inning, but apparently he can't be relied up in a tight situation (at least thus far).
I've never liked Javier Lopez, I think he's terrible as a situational lefty (especially when you consider lefties hit him better last year than righties did) and I too think we could go without him easily.
Manny Delcarmen is another disappointment, I was among the many who thought he would be a great late inning guy to help Oki and Pap. Hasn't happened yet, but the kid definitely has plus stuff, he's worth keeping.
Julian Tavarez is only helpful in that he makes a good pet for Manny... I'm not really sad to see him go.
David Aardsma has a great arm, but he walks too many batters. Decent guy to have.
Mike Timlin doesn't seem to have it anymore, but he's not a bad veteran player to have around.
Craig Hansen... another guy with plus stuff who can't seem to harness it all the time
We aren't in too bad of shape, but there is certainly room for improvement in the pen. I think Coco Crisp does get traded eventually, and his value would seem to be pretty decent at the moment as he is playing pretty well. Trust in Theo! They'll get it straightened out.
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Dec 3, 2007
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Nice point on the inherited runners for Okajima. I did not realize it was that high. It makes his numbers look better, while making others a little worse. It's more important for a late inning reliever to strand those runners, than it is to come in and pitch a clean inning when nobody is on base.
I do trust Theo, but I think he has been laying too low. I would really make a run at getting Murton back, even if it doesn't involve Coco.
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Reputation:68
Level:Pro
Since:Mar 3, 2008
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Honestly, relief pitchers are tricky because one season they could be lights out and the next struggle mightily. We might need a deal if the backend of the bullpen continues to cough up leads. However, my solution would be to bring up Masterson and make him a late inning reliever. A guy with a decent fastball but a plus plus sinker will do a fine job in relief. Worry about starting him next season
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Nov 1, 2006
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I've heard recent talk on sports radio that the Red Sox plan to put Clay Buchholz in the bullpen when he returns from the D.L. They would replace him in the rotation with Bartolo Colon and/or Curt Schilling depending on who is the healthiest.
The reason to put Buchholz in the pen is two-fold; they want to give their proven vets a shot while at the same time strengthining the bullpen, and lets face it, its easier for a young guy to move back and forth from rotation to pen than it is for two older guys like Colon and Schilling. However, the biggest reason that Buchholz may get moved is that they are still trying to limit his innings this year, and taking him out of the rotation except for some emergency/spot starts will allow them to do that.
Assuming that Colon and/or Schilling come back healthy and ready to go its a move thats ok by me.
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Dec 3, 2007
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I agree that moving Buchholz to the bullpen would strengthen what is currently a weakness, but I do have reservations. I worry about the impact on Buchholz arm if he has to warm up and/or pitch 4 or 5 times a week if he is not used to it. I think Schilling would be better suited because, let's face it, he is probably not going to give us more than 4 or 5 quality innings when he returns. Pitching an inning or 2 at a time, he could throw his hardest knowing he doesn't need to pace himself.
Masterson to the pen is what I believe will definitely happen in the second half of the season. I think this was in the Sox' plan all season long. Masterson relieved last season, so he is used to being in the bullpen. I can definitely see him being used like Papelbon was in 2005 and give us a boost down the stretch. I don't know if they would do the same thing with Bowden this season, but having 2 quality young arms in the pen for the stretch and playoffs would be a huge asset. Given that teams haven't seen them yet, and they would only be asked to go no more than once through a lineup could give us a nice advantage.
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Dec 3, 2007
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More on Buchholz...Yes, the Sox definitely want to limit his innings, but as I said above I worry about the impact on his arm relieving for an extended period. I think if they leave him in the minors for June and July to start and pitch 4-5 innings each time and then recall him in August, it will both limit his innings to well under the 180 they set for him, and provide us with a quality starter for the end of the season.
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Reputation:87
Level:All-Star
Since:May 12, 2008
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You have a point, but usually relief pitchers are not as good because most of the good ones are starters and they will have a good closer, and thats pretty much it. Could we use another, SURE! But I don't think its going to happen for awhile, the Red Sox are good already, Crisp could be changed for someone good, true, but we have those 2.
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Feb 23, 2007
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I couldn't agree more with that rokketmn. The pen is in a really bad state. Even at times this year Papelbona nd Okajima have looked a bit under par but have backed it up with other performances. The pen is really letting us down, or in the case of last night doing a really good job relieving a very poor Tim Wakefield. I agree we need to trade Crisp, As we have Jacoby Ellsbury who at the moment is hot. Without this improvement of the pen it could damage our chances of back to back World Series.
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Reputation:78
Level:Pro
Since:May 17, 2008
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As much as I feel trading Crisp is going to bite the Sox in the arse, the outfield is loaded right now. I've been saying since the off-season that the bullpen was going to be an issue, and that someone of decent worth would have to be traded to retool it a bit. As great as he is, and as much as I like having him on the team, Crisp is the only guy that I repeatedly think of.
With any luck the Sox could deal Lugo in a package trade as well. Though, I doubt many teams are really interested in him. It might just be that I look for it, but he seems to be an out (and even double-play) machine when batting.
Anyway, back on topic, I pretty much feel the same way about all the guys you mentioned. Though, I'm pretty sure Aardsma will work out fine. He'll never be a star closer, but he doesn't have to be on this team.
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Reputation:78
Level:Pro
Since:May 17, 2008
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Just to add to what I said.
If the intention really is to put Clay in the bullpen, then trading off Crisp+Lugo for a decent arm and an upgrade from Lugo would make even more sense to me. Like I said, I could just be hard on Lugo, but he seems to be the one constant hole in the lineup.
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Reputation:97
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 28, 2006
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I guess they can't send Buchholz to Pawtucket for a start or two. But, I wouldn't like to see a bullpen stint either, before the playoffs anyway.
How about a 6-man rotation for a cycle or two, if Colon keeps it together? Yes, it's unconventional, but maybe an extra day off would help.
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 26, 2006
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I could agree with that VK, but it's too unlikely, unfortunately. Heck, once Schill comes back, we'll have enough arms that I wouldn't argue an 8-man. Beckett, Dice-K, Lester, Buc, Colon, Schill, Masterson, Wake. It would, will, and should never happen, but the talent is all there.
Honestly though, I'm not worried about the bullpen too much. My take:
Javier Lopez - no arguing this one, he stinks. He's effective about 1/4 of the time. Trade him for Johnny Damon, and make Damon our lefty specialist. Damon can't throw any worse lefty than righty, right?
Delcarmen - I honestly think that despite his struggles, he's going to go on a tear and ease our nerves. Unfortunately, I expected it to start by now. I'm still not overly worried about him though, and he's got too much talent to let go.
Hansen - I have similar feelings with Hansen as Delcarmen, but I like Hansen a little less. At this point, he's underperformed too long to get anything for him, so I'd hate to see him traded and suddenly he finds his mojo.
Timlin - He's certainly not the pitcher he once was, and shouldn't be used as often in tight situations, but his tank isn't quite on E yet. No sense in getting rid of him... yet.
Tavarez - He's gone. We appreciate the help over the years, but he was definitely more Manny's pet than anything. I'm just glad I got to see him start last year in Fenway for his best performance ever - a 7-inning, 1-run W over the Tigers. I'll almost miss him. Not really though.
Aardsma - I actually like him a lot. He's at least been effective, if not great. For a middle reliever, I'll take it in a heartbeat.
Clay and Masterson should not be in true bullpen roles. I honestly believe it could ruin their development. If we had more options for starters, I'd do it, but it could be a horrible idea.
If we trade Coco, which I think they will eventually, they won't do it without getting at least one of the following - a good bullpen arm, another 4th outfielder, and/or a young catcher (despite the fact that I really like Kottaras still).
Honestly though, I'm really not worried yet. Most of our bullpen has just underperformed, and doesn't suck as bad as it seems.
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 26, 2006
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Side note - Johnny Damon DOES throw lefty... I confused myself by the numerous jokes over the years that he's supposed to throw right-handed, and is only confused because he's a left-handed batter(and because he's dumb as a rock), and that's why he throws softer than my 10 year-old cousin.
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 26, 2006
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