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First pitch swinging


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First pitch swinging
-
Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Nov 28, 2006

May 14, 2008 11:20 am

Juan Pierre, the lead off hitter. After watching Andruw Jones battle for a walk, Juan Pierre swings at the first pitch. Sure a lot of guys do that. But when you are the leadoff hitter.....COME ON!

Where is Ihateorange now? This is exactly why Juan Pierre has got to be the worst position player in the majors.

Buy into his "old school" play
Buy into his "hustle"
Buy into the hype of his speed
Buy into the hype that he brings a lot to the table

If you have bought into any of it, please walk to the garage, grab a hammer, and smack yourself in your b@lls 30 times.

Juan Pierre....first pitch swinging. And to hit the ball in the air. Sure he went 1-4... but another classic example of his one of his 200, meaningless hits.

I rather watch Andruw Jones everday. With Juan Pierre, he is playing his best right now. With Jones, we still can have hope that he will turn it around


First pitch swinging
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Reputation:94
Level:All-Star
Since:Oct 28, 2006

May 14, 2008 11:45 am
I was going to post something exactly like that... you always beat me to the punch...the end of the game yesterday was the first time I yelled at the TV since I made my not get too high and not get too low post three weeks ago... I'm still patient...but it got me thinking about Juan Pierre and something I've noticed... I know it'll be impossible to prove statistically because you'd have to know what is in other managers or players or even his head.

Let me first say Juan Pierre is probably one of the hardest workers in the league... all the stories I've heard and read say he comes early and leaves late....but this isn't about that.

I truly think Juan Pierre is a better player when his job is in jeopardy...let's use this as an example...the beginning of the season when he was sharing time with three other outfielders, he was playing fantastic...he was taking pitches, moving runners over and driving runners in... he had to change his approach because he knew if he didn't he wasn't going to play. Once Furcal went down and he was guaranteed to play everyday because of his speed at the top of the lineup, he reverts back to his usual form. He doesn't have to change..because Joe won't take him out of the lineup now..no matter how much he plays the antithesis of the philosophy Torre is trying to instill in hitters... Even Jones..who has been god awful..has seen alot of pitches...he may swing and miss at a lot of them, but he sees close to 5 pitches every at bat.

So my conclusion.. Juan Pierre plays better when he isn't assured of regular atbats...which means to me...even if we lose that speed at the top of the lineup, we HAVE to sit him a couple games while Raffy's out...it's proven he'll play better if he's worried about his job.

I suppose you could lead Martin off...heck its only for two games.


First pitch swinging
-
Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Apr 13, 2007

May 14, 2008 1:15 pm
all the stories I've heard and read say he comes early and leaves late

 

I wish he'd start to come late and leave early!

When he swung at that first picth, and popped up, I don't think I said a word or moved for about 5 minutes, I just stared at the screen.  When Andruw Jones worked that walk, I was excited, I told my fiance that he looked like he was seeing the ball better, then I realized, Juan Pierre was up next.  I told her, "he likes to swing early so he doesn't strike out", but I never thought in that situation that he actually would.  It's the old Little League adage that when you are trailing by two or more runs in the last inning, you take a pitch until you get a strike.  I subscribe to that logic, at any level of baseball.  He however does not.  I couldn't believe he actually swung at the first pitch from a guy who is struggling so badly, he (the day before) asked out as the closer, and having two men on base in a 2 run game.  I was dumfounded.  Still am. 

Is Joe Torre still blinded by Pierre's game after what Pierre did to his Yankees in the World Series? 


First pitch swinging
-
Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Mar 13, 2008

May 14, 2008 1:16 pm

Juan Pierre has always been looked at to lead off because A) he's fast and B) he's a slap hitter with no power. But he's never shown the important ingredients of a lead-off hitter: patience, an eye for the strike zone and the ability to work a count. As a result, even when his batting average is up, his on base percentage isn't that great. Check out his stats for Florida, even though the Marlins won the World Series with him up top.

I don't want to go all DePodesta here with the stats, but the leadoff guy's biggest responsibility is to get on base by any means necessary, steal a base or two and make the opposing pitcher throw a lot of pitches so the other players get a good look at him and you wear him out earlier in the game, forcing the opposition to go to the bullpen before summoning a closer. Unfortunately, that has not been Juan's history. He's a free swinger, who tries to put the ball in play and use his speed to get a hit.

A lot of teams, including the Dodgers, have overlooked those deficiencies because of his batting average and steals. I hope one more will do so in order for LA to trade him.


First pitch swinging
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Reputation:97
Level:Superstar
Since:May 2, 2007

May 14, 2008 1:19 pm
Juan Pierre's OBP is pretty garbage no doubt, and he definately needs to be more patient at the plate. That said, the dude is still a career .300 hitter, and has the most steals of any active player. That's pretty impressive.

I'm not saying he's amazing, but I think he takes more heat than he deserves. Just playing devil's advocate.


First pitch swinging
-
Reputation:94
Level:All-Star
Since:Mar 31, 2007

May 14, 2008 1:27 pm

I found it amusing how many people started loving on Pierre when he was hitting and then the debate was Jones vs Either. I never caved. Eddonald wanted to bring up the point he won us a couple games during the win streak in his rants and defense of Colletti and Pierre. Whatever. I don' t care if Pierre hits .330 I still don't want him in the lineup. The fact is his success is dependent on getting on base and then having someone get him in. He can never produce his own runs via homers. His noodle arm costs us more games than it will ever win us. Yes Jones swing is awful right now, completely, but I still love his defense and I would much rather see Either in there over Pierre. We should look to trade Pierre. Having speed at the leadoff position is a highly over-rated commodity. We have numerous guys that can steal between 15-20 bags throughout the lineup and that is enough. I hope Furcal returns soon since it looks like Pierre gets to always start as long as he is out. Personally I want to see DY or Repko get a shot at more regular ABs, with Kemp in Center and Either in Right.


First pitch swinging
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Nov 28, 2006

May 14, 2008 1:32 pm

I wouldnt have made this post is Juan Pierre popped out to end the game. I made this post because the past week we are seeing the Juan Pierre that  we watched in 162 games last year. And I dont want to taste vomit anymore. The guy is the worst regular in baseball. Stats hide things, hype things up. And the dismal stats that Juan Pierre has right now cant even hide how bad he is.

Its all boils right down to one thing. The GM. I know a lot of you are sick of hearing me say this, but its the truth. This team that Ned Colletti has put together will go no where. I cant wait for this season to end. Its only May and I can tell you right now I have that gut feeling that says we arent going to make the playoffs. Sad but true. It is what it is. And you know what, I rather not make the playoffs so McCourt can get rid of Ned Colletti.

Its sickening what that guy has down to my beloved Dodgers. He was the Media Relations Director. Where the heck did Frank get the idea this guy knew anything about ball players?


First pitch swinging
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Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Mar 13, 2008

May 14, 2008 3:56 pm

Dtown, a question. What did you think of Fred Claire?

He was another guy who came up through an organization's Media Relations department (The Dodgers'). To work in media relations effectively, you have to know your product, which in this case is a team.

I don't hold a job Colletti held a decade ago against him. He was an assistant GM under Brian Sabean with the San Francisco Giants and considered an up-and-comer when he was hired. He's made some good moves (Milton Bradley for Andre Ethier) and some bad ones (Esteban Loaiza). But he's also been smart enough to hold onto the young talent he inherited (Matt Kemp, James Loney, Andy LaRoche, Blake Dewitt) so while he doesn't get points for their acquisition, you can't knock his talent evaluation entirely. 


First pitch swinging