powered by Google  
  Track your favorite teams and players.
Free membership, Register Now
Already a member, Log In
 


Community | Help
Gibson Great, but here's another jaw dropper Sports News
Home    Fantasy    NFL  |  MLB  |  NBA  |  NHL  |  College FB  |  College BK  |  Golf  |  Racing  |  Tennis  |  Horses  |  MMA  |  More
CBS College  |  High School  |  Mobile  |  Shop
Community Home | My Profile | My Blog | Groups | My Settings | My Account | Member Search | Blog Search | About Community
 

Gibson Great, but here's another jaw dropper


View Message Board ·  Return to StoryViews:      


Gibson Great, but here's another jaw dropper
-
Reputation:95
Level:Superstar
Since:Sep 18, 2006

April 9, 2008 8:53 pm

Bob Gibson's 1.12 ERA is, at the very least, extraordinary. Its amazing, confounding, and down right as close to perfect as one can get, 70 years ago, 40 years ago, 10 years ago, and today.

But here is another baseball record that will never get broken, yet gets about as much hype and attention as does Pokey Reese these days. And that is (drumroll please...)

Cy Youngs 511 career wins.

511?

511!

Ok, lets put 511 wins in perspective for you. Roger Clemens, the leading active pitcher in wins, is around 354, maybe a few more. At his rate, he would have to pitch easily another 17 seasons in the MLB. That would make him roughly 61, 62 years old by the time he even got close.

Cy Young pitched for 22 seasons, 15 of those he notched 20+ victories. 5 times did he break 30 wins for a season, with his best coming in 1892, when he went 36-12 with a 2.85 ERA.

The next closest player is Walter Johnson, at 417. Then comes Pete Alexander and Christy Mathewson, both at 373. And guess what they all have in common? They are all long deceased, so we know that they are no threat to Young.

This feat is astounding. Nowadays, if a pitcher logs 200+ innings, we consider him a workhorse. For 19 consecutive seasons, Young threw at minimum, 287 innings, many times going well over 400 innings. ALL IN ONE SEASON! Some guys might not even record 400 innings in three seasons, but Young was doing this year in, year out.

But here is the real kicker. Only twice did he strike out over 200 batters in a season. That means that in all those innings (7354 2/3, to be exact), and all those outs he recorded (22,064, to be exact), only 12.7% of them were completely done by himself (please check my math, he struck out 2803 in his career). Obviously, I have never seen this man pitch a baseball, but these kind of stats lead me to believe that he might not have been a fireball pitcher like your Zambranos and Carmonas. He was just a great pitcher that could get people out and had an arm made of rubber.

Yes, I am aware that there is an award named for this man, forever framing his name with the highest echelon of pitching perfection. But when I sit and look at these stats, I am just appalled. If you think I am overreacting, then by all means, check out this link: http://www.baseball-reference.com/y/youngcy01.shtml

After you look at what this man did, please tell me if you agree that this is one of the most undercelebrated players in history.


Gibson Great, but here's another jaw dropper
-
Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Oct 2, 2006

April 10, 2008 12:03 am
The award for each leagues best pitcher each year is named after him.  I would say that is celebrating his career!  It is not called the Walter Johnson award!  Although most experts would agree that Walter Johnson is probably the greatest pitcher of the dead ball era, if not all-time.  Many consider Christy Matthewson #2.  ( Kind of like our generation's Clemens and Maddux)

Gibson Great, but here's another jaw dropper
-
Reputation:95
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 24, 2006

April 10, 2008 5:44 am

What's more amazing is his 750 complete games.. He won 8 in relief, so he completed at least 243 he started and finished and didn't win. 

Gibson's amazing season was kind of like the Patriiots last year since the Cardinals didn't win the World Series.  Dennny McLain won 31 that year, but the last laugh went to Mickey Lolich who won three world series games, including game seven.  So they lowered the mounds,  moved in the fences, leading to a generation of sore shouldered, overpaid pitchers who are worth 5 million a year to pitch six innings and leave the game with 3 runs, and overwork a sore shouldered bullpen.   


Gibson Great, but here's another jaw dropper
-
Reputation:85
Level:All-Star
Since:Mar 4, 2008

April 10, 2008 10:29 am

Agreed! Cy Young sets a bar that nobody will ever hurdle (or even come close to!).  It really contrasts the pitchers of today and how we think it's a huge feat to pitch a complete game.  The pitchers of yore would pitch 150+ pitch complete games, then come back on 2-3 days rest and do it again!  Closer, set-up man?  They never heard of such a thing.  Oh, how I long for those days again!


Gibson Great, but here's another jaw dropper
-
Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Dec 4, 2007

April 10, 2008 12:26 pm
If you could bring back those days of pitching, think about how many hitters you could have on your team.  Would it balance out so that you still needed more pitching?  How many relief pitchers would you actually need to carry?  Another thought, with needing fewer pitchers on each team, further expansion would be feasible.

Gibson Great, but here's another jaw dropper
-
Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Jan 15, 2008

April 11, 2008 10:45 pm
Not to discount Cy Young's achievements but let's put his stats in perspective.  Cy  Young led the league in wins 4 times which is the same amount as Roger Clemens did during his career.  In 1892 he was one of 6 guys who won 30 games.  Winning 20 was barely average for guys who started 50 games. 
Cy Young was not likely the best pitcher of his era.  One of Cy Youngs contemporaries Kid Nichols had 298 wins in his first ten years, 1890-1899.  Cy Young had  267 wins over the same period.  Ultimately most pitchers left the game because the paycheck back in those days for pitchers was nil.  Why should a guy stick around if he could get more in blue collar labor?  I'll give Cy Young credit for sticking it out and having a long career but not much more.

Seriously, take a look at Cy Young's contemporaries... there is a half dozen guys that averaged more wins than Cy Young but didn't bother to continue playing into the 20th century...