ASU should sue Pac-10 officials/no tourny

I'm so tired of hearing "but ASU beat UA twice, so they deserve a bid over UA".  You have to look at the entire body of work, and that's where that argument falls apart.  You could make the argument that if two teams are equal in all other respects, the team with the better head-to-head record should get the nod, but these two teams are NOT equal in all other respects.  Better conference record?  Yes, if you include the head-to-head matchups.  But against the other eight teams, UA was 8-8 and ASU was 7-9.  Better overall record?  Yes, but no sane person can claim that UA wouldn't have had a better record than 19-14 if they played the non-conference schedule ASU did rather than games @ Kansas, @ Memphis, against Virginia, etc...  Quality wins?  Arizona beat Texas A&M, UNLV, Washington State (twice), USC and Houston.  Arizona State beat Xavier, USC, Stanford and Oregon.

It didn't even come down to Arizona or Arizona State.  There were four other at large teams chosen after UA and before ASU - Kentucky, Baylor, Villanova and Kansas State.  It's clear that there was much more to separate UA and ASU this year than their head-to-head results.

I don't disagree that ASU deserved a bid this year.  They had a great season.  But given the strength of the Pac 10 and the likelihood that they're going to lose a handful of games, they have to play and beat some quality non-conference opponents.  You can argue the logic all day long, but it is what it is and it is what it has been.  You know what they look at - SOS, RPI, etc... and you have to have success in those areas to get an at large bid.

ASU will be better next year (if Pendergraph returns and they stay healthy).  But, so will most of the other teams.  It could be a case, again, of who ASU plays and beats out of conference.

U of A wins

Washington State (2)
@ USC
Texas A&M
@ UNLV (Mountain West tournament champs)
Cal State Fullerton (Big West tournament champs)

Lol at you listing UNLV A+M CSUF as big wins. Sure arizona played big teams but lost to everyone. You beat noone all year.

Next year all ASU has to do is schedule Memphis, Duke, NC, Tennessee and lose to everyone to get into the tourney?

Weak.

Exactly.

And, Arizona beat nobody?  Washington State (who swept ASU, by the way) isn't a good team?  USC, not a good team?  Texas A&M, not a good team?

And yes, to answer SDSU's question, if you play good teams and lose, it gives you more credibility than if you play bad teams and lose.

Excluding the two games UA and ASU played against each other, UA is 19-12 and ASU is 17-12, and UA's done that against a much more difficult schedule.  In the last fifteen games of the year, UA is 7-8, ASU is 10-15 (against the same teams).  Outside of the head-to-head matchup, UA comes out on top on virtually all comparisons between the two teams.

You're right, this is an open forum and UA and ASU fans can state their opinions, whatever they may be.  I'm not bashing ASU.  In fact, I think they were worthy of a bid, just not ahead of UA for the reasons I stated previously.  I still think the only relevant argument on ASU's behalf is that they beat UA in both meetings this year (forget that UA was missing Bayless in the first game and Wise in the second).  If you exclude the two games in which they played each other, UA wins virtually every comparison - overall record, conference record, record over the last 15 games, etc...  I could care less about the NATIONAL media - who's to say their opinion is worth more than mine or yours?  "Plenty of people in the NATIONAL media" making a case for ASU over UA does not mean that ASU should have gotten in over UA.  Besides, there are "plenty" of people in the national media explaining that UA rightfully got the bid over teams like ASU and VaTech.

Some questions...

• What happens if ASU is without Harden and/or Pendergraph for 11 games this year, as UA was without Bayless and/or Wise?
• What happens if ASU swaps Cal Poly, Florida Gulf Coast, Delaware State, St. Francis, PA and Coppin State with Kansas, Memphis, Illinois (oh wait, ASU did play Illinoise and lost by 23), UNLV and Houston (and UA swapped those teams for Cal Poly, Florida Gulf Coast, etc...)?

Look, ASU had a very good season but there's no question their RPI and SOS hurt them.  Maybe if ASU played Kansas, Memphis, etc..., they'd have won a few of those games.  We'll never know, but it sure would have been easier to compare ASU with some of the other teams that made it in.

ASU will be good next year, especially if Pendergraph returns.  I'm just hoping they don't shy away from playing tough, non-conference opponents so we're not debating why they didn't get in next year.

We'll see.

Bayless is a stud, and we'll be much better off if he stays, no doubt.  But, will we be screwed if he leaves?  Not even close.  We've got the top guard in the country, the top  player in the country according to many recruiting services, coming in next year in Brandon Jennings.  And the year after next, we've already got the #2 PG in the country locked up (Abdul Gaddy).  So no, if there's one position at which we can afford an early jump to the League, it's at guard.

Your argument, though, about Bayless' impact totally supports the committee's thinking.  They, too, recognized the impact of Bayless' and Wise's injuries on the overall record of UA.  Regarding the head-to-head matchups that everybody keeps whining about, I'm confident that the results would have been different if we'd been at full strength and you wre missing Harden in one game and Pendergraph or Glasser in the other. 

I am sure the U of A fans are getting worried with all the chatter on this thread.  You see what happens when "your" coach steps out for one season (what ever the reason...wink, wink).  I see an improvement from Coach Sendek when he was left with nothing in the cupboard, thanks to Evans.  His first year...two wins in the Pac-10...when everyone thought they were going to be the first Pac-10 team to go 0-18.  Now on the cusp of making the tournament...beating the team from down South (oh wait SWEAPING THE TEAM FROM DOWN SOUTH).  That's fine for me right now as I am sure Coach Sendek is mad at the committee (I am sure their decision cost Sendek a few pennies).  What I see in the team is a Coach that can coach and that's been a long time coming.  Sooner or later ASU's time is coming and that time is sooner rather than later.

Yes...U of A fans your empire is on its last stand...so enjoy it while you can cause I going to have a lot of fun talking smack when your on the bottom in all sporting activities.

PT fan for life...Go Devils

Sweaping???  You're representing your university well...

I'm confident that I speak for all UA fans when I say that we're NOT "getting worried with all the chatter on this thread".  And why should we be?  Lute's back and we have a top 3 recruiting class next year (and already have a commitment from the #2 PG in the 2009 class).

If you think that a 19-win season and a 24th straight tourney appearance signals that our "empire" is on it's last stand, then I want some of that Kool-Aid you're drinking.  Don't forget that Carolina went 8-20 just a few short years ago, and look where they are today.  Yes, it's true, this is a down year for UA, but given the last-minute coaching change, a transfer and injuries to two starters, what do you expect?  When Bayless and Wise are healthy, UA is 16-6, with one of those losses coming in overtime against Kansas (in Lawrence).  When we're healthy, and we are now, we're a different team.  End of an empire?  Not even close.

all BS aside

have you even been to tempe?

i dont think "scum devils"  is accurate

i have been to Tuscon, and at night, its like an episode of Cops, helicopters flying around, with the spotlight on drug dealers running from the law.  pretty sad.